COntrols Issue

Greetings All

Got a question slash Problem. I just got a 20Cm extension for warthog. to fly with. Everything ive read said it is east to fly with. But I am WAY WAY more unstable now than I was flying on the desk. I cant even keep nose straight and always feels like im looking straight but the tail is drifiting even though I trim straight. is there like curves I need to do or something. I am 100 an o curve deadzone like everything ive read. but it is barely flyable right now. Please share some Guidance. Thanks in advance.

Use no curves, and no deadzone.

Do you use pedals?

It sounds to me you are holding the stick with your entire hand and being to tensed in your arm muscles.

If you can, remove all centering springs (and center detent), might necessitate some disassembling.

As you probably have read already, place the stick on the floor between your legs in such a way you can rest (and relax) your lower right arm on your right thigh, comfortably holding the stick with your thumb, index and middle fingers. Use your (relaxed) fingers for small corrections, wrist for bigger (still relaxed and small movements).

With the long extension your movement of the grip is exponentially over that of it without. You just need to use less movement

Try mounting the stick and sit so you can use your right knee as a support for the right hand and lower part of the right arm. The lover part of the hand when holding the stick and the lower part of the arm should have support from the right leg/knee.

This is how I do it IRL, specially for extra demanding operations like hoisting, slingload and mountain landings, and I’m quite sure its the trick needed for anyone.

This is what have set up and also when the stick is forward it doesn't really move back to center in any direction.

This is what have set up and also when the stick is forward it doesn't really move back to center in any direction.

Looks good. Have you been flying the Huey (or other helicopters) with the unmodified stick on the table for a long time? Then it might just be your mussel memory screwing with you.

If that's the case follow the tips on having your arm relaxed on your leg flying with your fingers as described several times above, and then it's just (again) practice, practice and more practice.

If the stick doesnt center, thats good.

Then you shouldnt use the synthetic trimming on the huey that changes the center to present stick position. Do not use that.

Rember, the stick center for trimmed flight will be mote forward the faster you fly. Move the hand supported by the knee more forward the faster you fly.

Also, I think it could be that you need some training to adopt the muscle memory. It is a different feeling to have the stick beween the legs compated to the desktop.

All the above recommendations will get you right. I’d like to add another. I call it the pinky grip. The pinky positioned as shown allows you to manipulate most buttons/hats with your thumb without losing fine control of the cyclic inputs. What you can’t see in the photo is that my forearm is almost completely resting on my thigh. Stay with this new setup. It will soon become second nature and flying more fun, particularly the heli’s.

With the long extension your movement of the grip is exponentially over that of it without. You just need to use less movement

In actual fact with an extension that long, you need much bigger movements to achieve the same input as the default Hog.

Default hog had full deflection range of 6 inches (measured at top of stick). With my 5 inch extension it now has a deflection range of 10 inches. With your much longer extension it will be around 16 inches or more. Personally I think that extension is just too long to give a good feel on the Hog, but that's just my opinion. I started with 6.5 inch extension and cut it down to 5 which now feels perfect.

I took the heavy duty spring out of my hog but left the small ones in, primarily to still have it centre and stay there whilst on the ground with rotors turning. With no springs, you can't let go of the stick as it will flop over. Bit of a pain if you need to do other stuff like typing in chat or whatever. With the small springs in I can just feel the centre point and it will stay there but I hardly feel them while flying. Had to angle the base back a couple degrees to balance out the front heavy stick but it works nicely.

With your long extension it might actually benefit you to leave the heavy spring in. You have enough leverage to not have it hinder you and the stick will still centre and stay there when you need it to.

I agree with the guys on resting your arm on your leg for support and what Chic said about the grip is also very good advice. Don't grip it like a hammer that your going to hit a nail with. Try to have as light a grip as possible and you can even just use your fingers to make small movements without moving your arm or hand at all. Chic's pic shows pretty much the same grip I use.

Hope you find what works best for you. Happy flying.

Your correct I should have worded it differently. But if he’s still moving the stick until he sees the same amount of movement he’s used to then he’s over correcting and he needs to block out want he knows and start over and retrain those muscles

Full Control throw in a real helo is around 20cm both in pitch and roll, from stop to stop, measured at middle position on the cyclic handle.( = from center position to stop, around 10cm)

I measured the NH90 the other day for a friend building a DCS-rig.

A long extension might make control range more than IRL.

@Gunnars Driver

I have a Virpil stick, resolution is very good, but it centers. Do you recommend flying without trim? It takes more work and is a bit of a pain for longer flights. Same with the rudder pedals, they center.

(I can swap cams and make the stick non centering, but I mainly fly fixed wing modules)

@Gunnars Driver

 

I have a Virpil stick, resolution is very good, but it centers. Do you recommend flying without trim? It takes more work and is a bit of a pain for longer flights. Same with the rudder pedals, they center.

 

(I can swap cams and make the stick non centering, but I mainly fly fixed wing modules)

Ï think its a matter of your own choise. I havent played that much with the UH-1 but I use the UH-1 syntetic trim( I have TM Warthog) as I'm use to trim the cyclic to be able to for example look inside without loosing the attitude. That syntetic trim is a bit dangerous making you loose throw, so you need to take that in acount when using it.

IRL Bell 206 Jetranger cyclic is without springs and no artificial feeling, you can adjust friction for the stick. If you make the stick non centering it will work like this(except for the adjustable spring force I guess).

Best choise would be a mechanically trimmable cyclic for helo flying, but I guess they dont come that cheap. A friend is building a rig that will incorporate both trimmable and force trim releasable cyclic, thats the reason for measuring stick movement and force gradients.

I had exactly the same problem when I first removed the return spring from my warthog.

not fighting the spring gave me massive pilot induced oscillation.

it took a week for my muscle memory to sort itself out.

but after that it was exponentially better.

so stick with it.

Thanks for your input and advice! I’ll try to figure something out.

The Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 has nice trim functionality, but throw is really short and the base is big and made for a desktop. There are also full heli kits from Puma, but it is rather expensive and will not keep the equipment footprint down.

It would be great with a simple lever on the base to quickly adjust between centering/no centering.