Bf109's 30mm cannon too weak Poll

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I hit the p51 5 times with my first pass and than 2 more times in the left wing.No problem for the p51.

What do you guys think ?

Thanks for voting, watching.

mk108-vs-p51-wing-1.trk

DM seems inconsistent, but I wouldn't jump into conclusions after shooting AI plane.

AI planes have super-DM, which makes it super hard to kill them (sometimes)

One time I can murder a Fw190 within seconds with my .50cals and the other I can loose half of my ammo hitting it and it just starts smoking... a lot.

So, I would say DM is at fault not the 30mm itself. It might have good enough HE.

Try shooting down Hawk with .50cals xD I've lost most of my ammo on that plane yesterday xD I hope thunderbolt gets DM like that ;)

Easy "yes" from me. Whether it's a DM or 30mm issue doesn't matter.

Easy "yes" from me. Whether it's a DM or 30mm issue doesn't matter.

Sure, but what about weak .50cals then? They feel underwhelming sometimes, so I would say that it is the problem with DM, not with weapons themselves.

During the war the Germans did a study on this subject, I wish that I had saved that link. If I remember right it was like one cannon round to take out a fighter, and two or three for larger aircraft...with hit ratio of about 10 percent

Hit a P-51 with a total of twenty 30mm MK108 shells the other day, and it was still flying.

Could've knocked down several bombers with that many hits in real life :D

The Germans noted that on average it took the MK108 1 hit to down a fighter and 3 to down a bomber. That's not really what we see ingame atm, infact it seems to be 20+ times less destructive than it should be ^^

That having been said the .50 cals are also underpowered atm, although not by as much. Dunno what went wrong with the damage modelling?

my two cents on the matter is, that i suspect that there is a underlying bug hidden, affecting all aircraft, or at least all ww2 fighters....

with the experience i gained in more than 2years of dcs, i still have the feeling, that as soon as someone keeps the trigger pulled(even if only very short), the game seems to be overwhelmed with calculating whats happening, and therefore just quits/forgets a few events within that period.the result is, that i can constantly repeat the results, that are:

• keep the trigger pulled, and you will need plenty of ammo(probably 4 or even more direct Mk108 hits to down a P51) interestingly, with the 109 it seems that human flown p51s are more resistent than AI planes.
  

• just tab the trigger as briefly as you can, and one shot is enough IF you hit.
  

i dont think that either the 50cals nor the mk108 is two weak, but just that the dcs engine cant cope with the modules anymore.

could also be the same reason, why even a monster rig is brought to its knees if only one P51 is pulling the trigger.

WHICH IS RIDICULOUS! we are waiting for that bug to be fixed since it was in open beta, and that we still have to live with such a broking thing is just laughable.i know the excuse more than 1year ago was, that its not fixable, and that we have to wait for edge.

but considering that we are still waiting for edge without a clue when its going to be released, and the fact that other aircraft are not suffering from that really annoying bug, makes the waiting and that excuse inacceptable

The root cause is the bad damage model of AI planes NOT the weapons!

It's a common topic, since we get more fighters, WWII or Korea, etc.

If you go MultiPlayer and fight against a human controlled plane with complex damage modeling, the weapons work very accurate... Only AI planes, seem to use a hitpoint model, which leads to a P-51 still flying like it's got no damage even when all damage zones are down to 1 Hitpoint left.

The visual damage modeling seems pretty unrelated to physical damage effects. E.g. you can see ailerons missing engine on fire, yet the AI plane does turn and climb like fresh from the manufacturing plant...

my two cents on the matter is, that i suspect that there is a underlying bug hidden, affecting all aircraft, or at least all ww2 fighters....

 

with the experience i gained in more than 2years of dcs, i still have the feeling, that as soon as someone keeps the trigger pulled(even if only very short), the game seems to be overwhelmed with calculating whats happening, and therefore just quits/forgets a few events within that period.the result is, that i can constantly repeat the results, that are:

 

 

• keep the trigger pulled, and you will need plenty of ammo(probably 4 or even more direct Mk108 hits to down a P51) interestingly, with the 109 it seems that human flown p51s are more resistent than AI planes.
  

 

 

• just tab the trigger as briefly as you can, and one shot is enough IF you hit.
  

 

 

 

 

i dont think that either the 50cals nor the mk108 is two weak, but just that the dcs engine cant cope with the modules anymore.

 

 

could also be the same reason, why even a monster rig is brought to its knees if only one P51 is pulling the trigger.

WHICH IS RIDICULOUS! we are waiting for that bug to be fixed since it was in open beta, and that we still have to live with such a broking thing is just laughable.i know the excuse more than 1year ago was, that its not fixable, and that we have to wait for edge.

 

but considering that we are still waiting for edge without a clue when its going to be released, and the fact that other aircraft are not suffering from that really annoying bug, makes the waiting and that excuse inacceptable

+1

At this moment, we don't have a new DM, you can adjust the weight of the explosive in the Shell. For example - Such as M-61, he overestimated in 5.5 from the original if you look in the configuration file.

8 3/4 minutes of fun: http://fandavion.free.fr/camera.mpeg

http://fandavion.free.fr/camera.mpeg

But i think at that video we can see fragment of MG151/20 fire.

the DM and damage effects of Mk-108 30mm cannon of DCS Bf-109K4 is obviously more weak than the reality..

NO, it is NOT the weapon! It is the AI planes (in fact all planes) damage model.

If you hit a MP plane piloted by a human pilot, you cause appropriate damage.

It does not help to tweak or change the MK-108 shell damage. We need a change to the AI damage model.

In general no matter what weapon the AI planes suffer only cosmetic damage until the particular hitzone is down to zero, or at least over a specific threshold.

Yes I think that the round certainly does not match the real thing...in Clod it use to be that one well placed round would finish off a fighter, not sure how it is nowadays...DCS should have a look at this problem with the K though, for sure

NO, it is NOT the weapon! It is the AI planes (in fact all planes) damage model.

If you hit a MP plane piloted by a human pilot, you cause appropriate damage.

It does not help to tweak or change the MK-108 shell damage. We need a change to the AI damage model.

In general no matter what weapon the AI planes suffer only cosmetic damage until the particular hitzone is down to zero, or at least over a specific threshold.

I hitted four 30mm shots to a enemy player aircraft before. He still could fly.

Hmm, strange. I got hit by the Mk-108 one or two hits in an A-10C and my complete tail including engines was devastated...

Similar "ouch time" in a P-51D against human Bf-109 hit by the MGs only... I'm not saying you are wrong, seems you get pretty different results, than me.

I hitted four 30mm shots to a enemy player aircraft before. He still could fly.

Correct. It is not just an AI damage model problem.

I suggest that you try adjusting the WWII/weapons.lua file and add more explosive material to the MK108 bullets to compensate for the bad DM of the AI planes. Might do the trick on SP , of course that is not gonna fly on MP stuff.

I have modified the MK108 (more boom!) and the GAU-8/A (less dispersion) shells for my personal use and compiled the changes into JSGME compatible format. :smartass:

30mm damage model Vs Human driven p51 (Online Recording but 3x slower to see the hits clearly)

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The vertical and horizontal stabilizer don't fly off or suntain any damage, not even the elevator part of the horizontal stabilizer of the rudder part of the vertical stabilizer sustains any damage.

The p51 was fine,after this,i killed it after a long chase with the mg's.

I would post a track too .But they all go stupid at some point and don't record MP action correctly.

I recommend a DCS repair, or removing the mod(s) that tweak the smoke, the bullets and add the tracers to the MK-108, as it is not sure if the mod is buggy/breaking things, or if DCS...

I recommend a DCS repair, or removing the mod(s) that tweak the smoke, the bullets and add the tracers to the MK-108, as it is not sure if the mod is buggy/breaking things, or if DCS...

That makes sense, but what is the way and how to do a repair :)

If you did not use a mod manager, like JSGME to "mod" DCS, you can do a DCS repair under:

Startmenu/All Programs/Eagle Dynamics/DCS World/ "Repair DCS World"

Be advised, it will overwrite ANY changes to the DCS World install, including texture mods, lua tweaks etc. in the C:/Program Files/Eagle Dynamics/DCS World/ folder with the original files.

The configs and settings in your user profile are left untouched.

If you use Nvidia SweetFX it happens that the DLL part remains in the DCS World directory and causes DCS not to start, if that happens you need to manually remove "d3d9.dll" and "dxgi.dll" from C:/Program Files/Eagle Dynamics/DCS World/bin

EDIT: in fact the repair does only replace files that have been changed compared to the original install, it does not delete stuff you manually added to the DCS World\Mods folder, like manually installed plane mods... modules managed by the download manager, seem to be "repaired" as well.

During the war the Germans did a study on this subject, I wish that I had saved that link. If I remember right it was like one cannon round to take out a fighter, and two or three for larger aircraft...with hit ratio of about 10 percent

Ok, so... your entire loadout to kill one larger aircraft (also, there are videos out there of B-17G flying on as if nothing happened after taking 8-15 30mm hits- you can COUNT them hitting. They just didn't hit anything important as far as remaining airborne. There are B-17s that had 88mm detonate INSIDE the fuselage that made it home.) Don't put too much faith in the "Luftwaffe says 2-3 hits should do it" studies.