Primary sideslip indicator?

Anyone know whether the HUD is capable of representing a sideslip indicator?

I am aware of the backup AI having a sideslip (ball) below it however I would have expected that the HUD would have some indication of sideslip or beta as it’s sometimes called. If you have an engine failure on takeoff you wouldn’t want to be going “heads down” to look at that very small indicator and yet you would most certainly need to know your beta.

I don't think there's a slip indicator on the HUD at all, I think the SAI is the best option, though there may be one on the ADI DDI page?

Most of the time in the Hornet it's not important information, since the FCS keeps slip under control automatically.

Isn't that what the horizontal position of the velocity vector represents?

Nope. VV indicates wind drift. Ball indicates slip / uncoordinated turn.

Nope. VV indicates wind drift. Ball indicates slip / uncoordinated turn.

If the VV is caged it will be an indicator of slip. If it isn't caged, it's a combination of wind and slip.

How?

If the VV is caged it will be an indicator of slip. If it isn't caged, it's a combination of wind and slip.

If that's true then the hornets FCS must be broken because it's commanding a whole boat load of sideslip in high winds.

It works fine.

Fly in NAV mode with a crosswind. Cage the VV. You'll see pitch ladder and a solid VV align to the centre of the hud, and a ghost VV off to one side. The ghost VV is corrected for wind, the solid one is not.

Kick the rudder, both will now shift left/right, indicating sideslip.

If you fly in AA mode, the VV is always caged, in AG mode it's always uncaged.

The VV may be broken then, if it is intended to indicate slip/skid when uncaged.

I tested using an extreme asymmetric loadout to induce slip/skid, FL20, no wind, A/P ALT/HDG.

Uncaging/caging appears to indicate slip/skid, as expected.

Countered slip/skid using rudder, ball now centered in slip indicator.

Uncaging/caging appears to indicate same slip/skid as before, e.g. rudder didn't change VV movement.

Really sorry for the confusion guys, they've changed something as what I described was how it used to work, but having just checked, it doesn't any more.

When caged it's locked to the centre (it used to move with yaw).

When uncaged it shows where you're heading, which while does take into account yaw, can't be used to determine sideslip as it's also affected by wind as has been previously mentioned.

Apologies again.

I don't recall it ever moving via slip when caged but I haven't flown it in a while so... Maybe I just don't remember :)

Really sorry for the confusion guys, they've changed something as what I described was how it used to work, but having just checked, it doesn't any more.

 

When caged it's locked to the centre (it used to move with yaw).

 

When uncaged it shows where you're heading, which while does take into account yaw, can't be used to determine sideslip as it's also affected by wind as has been previously mentioned.

 

Apologies again.

No problems, yes the VV is NOT showing slip so getting back to the original question, how would a Hornet pilot go about "stepping on the ball" as we say in the event of an egine failure after takeoff, particularly at night or in IMC, where performance might be a concern, suerly they're not going to be relying on the stanby atitude indicator for slip information?

On a side note, is there any access to the Hornet "Red pages"/memory recall items or is that all restricted info?

I believe you don't "step on the ball" in the Hornet.

The fcs is taking care of it.

You have a slip indicator down under the artificial horizon , you can also place that on an mfd if you want.

But under normal flight it barely moves out of center.

The ADI DDI page does not provide a slip indication, there is only a turn indicator in addition to the artificial horizon.

The fcs is taking care of it.

It does not.

DCS manual Page 70:

An X in both CH1 and CH3 of PROC row indicates INS data is not being provided to the FCCs for sideslip and AOA estimation calculations. There is no significant degradation to flying qualities, departure resistance or roll performance with these failure indications. (Above approximately 30° AOA in Flaps AUTO, the FCCs use INS data for sideslip and sideslip−rate feedback to provide roll coordination and departure resistance. If INS data is not available, sideslip control, departure resistance and roll performance may be slightly degraded).

To be specific, I was referring to the idea that no rudder input was required from the pilot; this is not the case:

some amount of rudder deflection and/or trim will be required to offset

the yawing moment from asymmetrical thrust

I did not mean to imply there was no FCS input at all.

Amazing that there isn’t some better indication, I know that they talk of it as being a centreline thrust plane for obvious reasons but I would have thought that a performance limited takeoff weight followed by an engine failure, particularly off a carrier would necessarily require the capacity to fly that precisely. Maybe it’s not so important, I don’t know.

Amazing that there isn’t some better indication, I know that they talk of it as being a centreline thrust plane for obvious reasons but I would have thought that a performance limited takeoff weight followed by an engine failure, particularly off a carrier would necessarily require the capacity to fly that precisely. Maybe it’s not so important, I don’t know.

I suppose an engine failure counts as an emergency/abnormal situation, so having to use the back up instruments would make sense. You dont really need a slip indicator in normal flight.

I suppose an engine failure counts as an emergency/abnormal situation, so having to use the back up instruments would make sense. You dont really need a slip indicator in normal flight.

Yep maybe, but I’ve been flying IRL for twenty years and flying multi engine for the majority of that. It would be the first aircraft that I’ve ever seen that doesn’t have sideslip indicator including the A320 which is also a fly by wire aircraft for which you don’t generally use the sideslip indicator, that is until you have an engine failure, suddenly it become one of your most significant focal points, albeit our two engine are much further apart.

Yep maybe, but I’ve been flying IRL for twenty years and flying multi engine for the majority of that. It would be the first aircraft that I’ve ever seen that doesn’t have sideslip indicator including the A320 which is also a fly by wire aircraft for which you don’t generally use the sideslip indicator, that is until you have an engine failure, suddenly it become one of your most significant focal points, albeit our two engine are much further apart.

But hornet does have a sideslip indicator, its just put in the backup instrument cluster, because you wont ever need it if the aircraft is working.

The only sideslip indicator is down on the standby. You only really use it if you’re trimming out an asymmetric loadout, or before dive bombing with GP ordnance. During an engine failure, assuming you’re above VMC AOA, the Hornet is very controllable and doesn’t require too much rudder in mil thrust. A/B requires more, but it can easily be coordinated via seat of the pants feel, with a quick cross check down to the Standby ADI.

Sideslip indicator has nothing to do with trimming out assymetric loadout.

Sideslip indicator has nothing to do with trimming out assymetric loadout.

Disagree, and I've been trying to tell the Viper guys this for months. It absolutely has a part to play in trimming out asymmetric loads.

How?