F/A-18C capability in EA

Actually Su-25T ain't slow at all.

When you go to fight with like 2x ARM and 2x S-8 pods, you can fly about 650-750kph. That ain't much slower that Hornet is with similar load. And once you unload Frog, you can almost go supersonic.

 

Hornet ain't fast as people often think, you don't go supersonic in A-G configuration.

And as Frog can land unprepared bases, it can do very quick turnaround before hornet is even back to carrier.

 

Hornet should be only about 10-30% faster depending configurations. But as hornet is far more fragile for ground fire, so you really stay away from all such engagement where it can get shot.

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

(sigh) *casts pointed finger into the air* ACKCHEWALLY... (/sigh)

 

:argue:

 

Fine. Over-exaggeration on my part HOWEVER once the Hornet releases its stores (i.e. "unloads", as you put it) it CAN go supersonic, none of this 'almost' business. And how many unprepared bases are there in DCS, without ones you might make yourself? IRL, depending on how they're used, that's something to consider. In DCS, that's not a thing I've seen done. I will have to look into that.

 

The Su-25T was never designed to be fast to begin with so you're basically flying a very small airliner. That was designed to shoot and be shot at...

 

Back on topic, who's confident in taking on R-27ER/ET equipped MiG-29s with AIM-7s? :helpsmilie:

Edited April 21, 2018 by cailean_556

Except BLUFOR has had very good SEAD capability for a long time already.

 

Blue Doesn't have anything CLOSE to true SEAD Capability. Compared to what Red side has with the Su-25T what you mention are compromises / last resort measures in real life.

Mind sharing please? :)

 

 

 

This is only thing that you need:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118175

 

 

Idas script.

 

 

Makes sams bit more smart.

Yea, the Shrike didn't have a memory so shutting off radar worked, but the AGM-88 remembers the source location. Should be pretty interesting to see how servers like blueflag and yours handle that. Guess more and more deadly SAMs will be a thing.

 

from my expereince playing DCS combined arms, Whent playing a SA15 Tor If hornets shot off Agm88c's they could remember your last location but that was a non issue since after turning off radar all you needed to do was move forwards or backwards by a couple dozen meters or so to avoid them. Hell That platform specfically can detect, Target and shoot down harms anyways, so as long as multiple missiles arent spammed at your direction theres a fairly good chance of you shooting down the very HARM targeting you before it reaches you, although of course the safer bet is merely turning off radar and egresss a small distance

 

Anyways i think im digressing here a bit. Either way YEs IM glad AGm88c is priority for the F/A18C immediate;y after EA . Standoff range for proper SEAD ( or DEAD given AIs simple behavior), and no blueforce aircraft has had up to to this point anything like the Su25T has for that mission profile.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Kev2go

Blue Doesn't have anything CLOSE to true SEAD Capability. Compared to what Red side has with the Su-25T what you mention are compromises / last resort measures in real life.

SEAD doesn't mean you need ARM missiles....

 

The frog is by itself an attack aircraft. It can take beating, it increase surviving changes for pilot and can land/takeoff on short and very rough areas.

 

It's SEAD capability comes from a good RWR, possibility to fly low (not subject to FOD similar way), can go fast or slow, has food ECM (not simulated) and IR jammer for rear and can carry very big bomb and rocket loads for area effects.

 

You don't even need ARM missiles to be very effective in SEAD.

The L-081 pod is benefit to search well hidden units or very long ranges for DEAD but work only if target is emitting, what makes it not so effective really for SEAD.

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

Fine. Over-exaggeration on my part HOWEVER once the Hornet releases its stores (i.e. "unloads", as you put it) it CAN go supersonic, none of this 'almost' business. [\quote]

 

Your would've been carrying fuel tanks, and you will not eject those without a very good reason, like being attacked so you would need to go supersonic.

In DCS we do not have anyone yelling to pilots after mishap and ground them for destroying an aircraft for their own idiotism. Why people do wrong things like challenge or fly totally wrong ways.

 

And how many unprepared bases are there in DCS, without ones you might make yourself? IRL, depending on how they're used, that's something to consider. In DCS, that's not a thing I've seen done. I will have to look into that.

 

You need to use roads at the moment, until someday ED implements a way to add such field areas where you can land without going fireball automatically.

 

With harrier we at least can do it already.

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

SEAD doesn't mean you need ARM missiles....

 

I don't think anybody said you do, it's just that having a longer range, high speed ARM like AGM-88 will be a really big help when compared to the much shorter ranged and slower weapons Blue team has now.

 

Frogfoot and Hornet approach the problem of SEAD/DEAD differently. It is in many respects an apples and oranges comparison.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Boogieman

I'll say it. For US forces, SEAD is done with AGM-88s among other weapons, but oh yes 88s are in there each and every time, and F-16s or F-18s are the only aircraft that do it. When it's done, it's not to scare, it's to destroy. Give the enemy a chance to kill you tomorrow, that ain't how it's done.

I'll say it. For US forces, SEAD is done with AGM-88s among other weapons, but oh yes 88s are in there each and every time, and F-16s or F-18s are the only aircraft that do it. When it's done, it's not to scare, it's to destroy. Give the enemy a chance to kill you tomorrow, that ain't how it's done.

SEAD is not about killing, it is about suppressing enemy air defense.

Check what "suppressing" means in military and you get the idea.

 

When you are overwhelmed by enemy and you can't kill them, then you suppress them so you can operate. Like you can suppress enemy air defense so you can go and destroy them.

 

And main way to do it is with bombs, rockets and even sometimes cannon, as least part of AA is behind radar or requiring a radar. Radars are used as well just to track your moves so your actions are known, but sometimes you can't touch the radar as it can be catastrophic to take any actions against them.

 

A standoff weapons from glide bombs, laser guided to GPS guided or TV guided perform far better than ARM missiles and are cheaper and easier to deliver on most cases.

 

A HARM doesn't destroy SAM site, but cluster bombs does.

A HARM can be fooled while it is in flight, but GPS guided bomb doesn't care of your radar status.

 

A recon squad lazing to you will be even more effective.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

SEAD is not about killing, it is about suppressing enemy air defense.

Check what "suppressing" means in military and you get the idea.

 

When you are overwhelmed by enemy and you can't kill them, then you suppress them so you can operate. Like you can suppress enemy air defense so you can go and destroy them.

 

And main way to do it is with bombs, rockets and even sometimes cannon, as least part of AA is behind radar or requiring a radar. Radars are used as well just to track your moves so your actions are known, but sometimes you can't touch the radar as it can be catastrophic to take any actions against them.

 

A standoff weapons from glide bombs, laser guided to GPS guided or TV guided perform far better than ARM missiles and are cheaper and easier to deliver on most cases.

 

A HARM doesn't destroy SAM site, but cluster bombs does.

A HARM can be fooled while it is in flight, but GPS guided bomb doesn't care of your radar status.

 

A recon squad lazing to you will be even more effective.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

As you say it's all about standoff weapons. For dead after sead. Because there are still lower level air defenses that can threaten you if you fly over directly with bombs or guns. No one wants to loose w pilot or multimillion dollar plane.

 

The reason there is more emphasis on dead now because harm missiles have drastically evolved.

 

Agm88d and up can't really be fooled. D uses Gps as part of its guidance so it won't be fooled into tracking a false activates target but the initial target it was shot at after shutdown.

 

The latest Agm88e can counter passive raders and still follow radars after shutdown and mobile ones that are able to egress without needing to be dismantled

Edited April 23, 2018 by Kev2go

As you say it's all about standoff weapons. For dead after sead. Because there are still lower level air defenses that can threaten you if you fly over directly with bombs or guns. No one wants to loose w pilot or multimillion dollar plane.

 

The reason there is more emphasis on dead now because harm missiles have drastically evolved.

 

Still the most dangerous ones are without radar or with radar when it is already too late to launch ARM. As long the radio silence is hold, the ARM can't detect the targets. (Why still cable communications are used or wireless with very narrow beam).

 

Agm88d and up can't really be fooled. D uses Gps as part of its guidance so it won't be fooled into tracking a false activates target but the initial target it was shot at after shutdown.

 

The latest Agm88e can counter passive raders and still follow radars after shutdown and mobile ones that are able to egress without needing to be dismantled

 

Those are very new ones, and you can fool them as most new SAM systems are mobile and are covered inside forests etc where they can move freely without milliliter radar seeing anything.

 

That is a challenge in european warfare that you can't apply desert warfare tactics.

 

that is one reasons why bombs, rockets etc are still main weaponry against anti air, especially when more and more there are AA units engaging ARM missiles.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

See... This discussion right here is why people fly the way they do in DCS.

 

There's no consequences, so yeah you can fly your happy rear end over a sam site and drop bombs on it and cannon and all of that unrealistic nonsense. In the real world the guys life and multi million dollar aircraft are on the line. Which is why the HARM was invented to stop the wild weasel nonsense of the 60's and early 70's because people where getting killed doing it. Yeah, ok sure you CAN drop ordinance on SAM sites or loft bomb GBU's at them. But that's just not realistic. In CVW-11 when we go on deployment we are only going to have the amount of aircraft/stores/etc on the deck that a carrier would have. Obviously resupply ships do show up from time to time. If stupidity prevails such as overflying sam sites out of some misguided sense of machismo, and guys lose aircraft right and left guess what, they wont be flying anymore.

 

That behavior to me is akin to dropping your ordinance/tanks before landing on the deck. Simply because you're trying to make things easier. My guys will be taking their ordinance/drop tanks back to the boat with them because there will be a limited supply.

 

Bottom line you fly how you want in DCS that's cool.

 

If you wanna learn to fly how the real world is, you gotta drop that machismo a little bit and start using the tools that where invented. The weapon exists because a threat exists otherwise there would be no purpose in spending millions and possibly billions of dollars on it.

From what I've heard it's somewhat like an A model however the A model could carry LGBs (although they needed a separate designator), it could also carry AGM-65s and Walleyes with Datalink pod

 

I'm a little new to the DCS Hornet so please excuse me if this is a silly question, but will the final release Hornet be a proper C model or is it always going to be closer to the A model in terms of capability?

I'm a little new to the DCS Hornet so please excuse me if this is a silly question, but will the final release Hornet be a proper C model or is it always going to be closer to the A model in terms of capability?

 

It will be a proper C model Lot 20

 

Early Access means that the thing is essentially in open beta form. Like many other games they release it early to get the clients to test it during development to fix bugs easier etc etc. It's always going to be a C Lot 20 but some of the more advanced systems come later on in the development cycle.

See... This discussion right here is why people fly the way they do in DCS.

 

There's no consequences, so yeah you can fly your happy rear end over a sam site and drop bombs on it and cannon and all of that unrealistic nonsense. In the real world the guys life and multi million dollar aircraft are on the line. Which is why the HARM was invented to stop the wild weasel nonsense of the 60's and early 70's because people where getting killed doing it. Yeah, ok sure you CAN drop ordinance on SAM sites or loft bomb GBU's at them. But that's just not realistic. In CVW-11 when we go on deployment we are only going to have the amount of aircraft/stores/etc on the deck that a carrier would have. Obviously resupply ships do show up from time to time. If stupidity prevails such as overflying sam sites out of some misguided sense of machismo, and guys lose aircraft right and left guess what, they wont be flying anymore.

 

That behavior to me is akin to dropping your ordinance/tanks before landing on the deck. Simply because you're trying to make things easier. My guys will be taking their ordinance/drop tanks back to the boat with them because there will be a limited supply.

 

Bottom line you fly how you want in DCS that's cool.

 

If you wanna learn to fly how the real world is, you gotta drop that machismo a little bit and start using the tools that where invented. The weapon exists because a threat exists otherwise there would be no purpose in spending millions and possibly billions of dollars on it.

 

 

Funny you say that cause the only comments I’ve ever seen from an actual F-16 Weasel pilot were more along the lines of ‘harm is a waste of a good weapons station’ and ‘you’re an idiot if you think lobbing smart weapons over the horizon is weaseling’. No doubt there is a decent amount of typical pilot cynicism in those statements and I’m sure the tech has developed since the Iraq war (where the author flew in combat) but considering he’s been hailed as the USAF pilot with the most Sam kills in history etc etc I’m gonna take his word for it.

 

Certainly comparing real life sam engagements to how it is in the other well known sim harms and jsow like things are disproportionately effective. That’s because the sams we have in games like these are more or less brain dead fixed sites that sit there lobbing missiles just waiting for you to come and kill them instead of using real world ambush tactics etc. would not be surprised to see the same thing be the case in DCS.

See... This discussion right here is why people fly the way they do in DCS.

 

There's no consequences, so yeah you can fly your happy rear end over a sam site and drop bombs on it and cannon and all of that unrealistic nonsense. In the real world the guys life and multi million dollar aircraft are on the line. Which is why the HARM was invented to stop the wild weasel nonsense of the 60's and early 70's because people where getting killed doing it. Yeah, ok sure you CAN drop ordinance on SAM sites or loft bomb GBU's at them. But that's just not realistic. In CVW-11 when we go on deployment we are only going to have the amount of aircraft/stores/etc on the deck that a carrier would have. Obviously resupply ships do show up from time to time. If stupidity prevails such as overflying sam sites out of some misguided sense of machismo, and guys lose aircraft right and left guess what, they wont be flying anymore.

 

That behavior to me is akin to dropping your ordinance/tanks before landing on the deck. Simply because you're trying to make things easier. My guys will be taking their ordinance/drop tanks back to the boat with them because there will be a limited supply.

 

Bottom line you fly how you want in DCS that's cool.

 

If you wanna learn to fly how the real world is, you gotta drop that machismo a little bit and start using the tools that where invented. The weapon exists because a threat exists otherwise there would be no purpose in spending millions and possibly billions of dollars on it.

While almost all you say is totally true (why I made wish thread to ED that would put a virtual pilots to be f fearing the death as your virtual pilot would die and lose all achieved and be locked from server for a while after spending too many aircrafts (like 3-5 virtual pilots per server for every ED account) etc. My point is that the HARM is almost useless against real world first world AA in non-desert map when real people would operate AA operations.

 

You need that A-G radar and moving map to know where you are flying. You need A-G radar capability to spot moving details in ground and filter them to be ground units to find them.

 

SEAD is done with assist from ground troops, lazing your targets. Required as AA is passive without emissions, even without radios so you can't even launch HARM against walkie talkies (what it's capable).

Ground units has methods to detect A-A and A-G radars and give range and direction. Ground units as well can only inform the coming low level aircrafts after passing to inform troops ahead for minutes before to be ready.

 

You wouldn't be there flying high either as you will be shot down by SAM and you will have fighters intercepting you. So you don't even launch HARM as it is useless when SAM is already behind you or below you.

 

Visually you wouldn't be bombing much as troops are inside forests, those are even better than any cave in Afghanistan. Even when A-G radars are told to be able see through trees under them, that ain't really true. You can see under few trees but a normal European Forest and you are blind as too much rocks and trunks and all vehicles are under nets covered against radars and visual spotting, tracks covered and locations changed periodically to avoid enemy intelligence mapping it.

 

All forests etc are filled with MANPADS, cannons, IR SAM etc. You don't go anywhere near with any HARMv missiles as you can't target them. You need to go and drop bombs. But what you really do is call an artillery strike as it is even today the most effective against anything. It still kill more infantry and vehicles than any other branch counted together.

 

HARM is only useful against dedicated early warning radars that takes over 15min to move. But even those are so well protected that HARM will not reach them as those get shot down. That is why cruise missiles exist, to fly low and hit them. You don't go anywhere near with HARM as it is waste of money and time.

 

That is why you don't fly with fully loaded aircrafts as you can't use them all. Two bombs is already plenty as you most often don't even use them. A high altitude bomber is the key, but you don't fly those when there is SAM and fighter patrols.

 

Everything is behind layers like onion. And you need to peel every single layer one by one out. And that is why you have tactical nukes and chemical weapons and area effect submunitions from rocket launchers, so you get them off with ground troops doing hard work.

 

Even today SEAD would be needed to be done with old fashion way as every ARM is useless as there ain't radiation to target for or that ain't gonna kill you in few seconds after you detect it.

 

And even if you manage to launch HARM, the search and guidance radars are already moving few seconds after that. Likely those were raised 20-30m above ground inside forests, blocking your HARM accuracy for platform and proximity detonation distance as it is already too far from them.

 

So far DCS had been about playing on billiard table. Trees not blocking anything from radars to IR to LOS and missiles.

We still have AI that doesn't know how to fire with cannons. AI that doesn't have even idea of surviving. AI that hasn't a logic for military operations.

 

What we have is imbecile ground units that sit on ground like a target on shooting range. The AI is good only for training a aircraft cockpit operations for procedure of weapons delivery. Not combat. Not weapons effect.

 

For every tank platoon there would be thousands of soldiers with small caliber weapons, up to 700-1000m altitude and ranges, dozens of HMG/cannons reaching up to 2-3km altitude or 3km ranges. Dozens MANPAD reaching 3-4km altitude or 5km ranges. Few IR platforms reaching 3-6km. Dozen IFV with few having automatic tracking to air targets up to 3-4km ranges.

None wouldn't give you any warning, impossible to try even target with HARM.

 

And all those layered for kilometres distances from the tank platoon or close proximity. Meaning you don't fly anywhere else than high over 7km. You don't get good changes to use any Mavericks either from low level.

 

All constantly moving, so next day it is different if not hours. Your next sortie can be kilometres further from last location. Wearing out the pilots as they would get lacking of intelligence. Requiring to get low and close to find targets. As pilots would need to be under 1500m distance visually spot something.

 

The whole idea that someone just flies in with HARM and gets kills is just totally wrong. Just like the actions A-G virtual pilots does or fighter pilots doing cat and mouse game 300m above ground etc.

 

That is all limitations of the engine capability to run thousands of ground units with AI for each unit follow command structure and have surviving skills etc.

 

Yes the HARM will _extend_ SEAD capability for BLUFOR, but doesn't add it, as it has always been there.

Our virtual pilots this date has mainly had only a RWR to tell them something. Very limited thing. While in reality you have kneeboard map with the lasts intelligence. Now in moving map assigned the threat areas. Data links to update it from all ground troops etc.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

While almost all you say is totally true (why I made wish thread to ED that would put a virtual pilots to be f fearing the death as your virtual pilot would die and lose all achieved and be locked from server for a while after spending too many aircrafts (like 3-5 virtual pilots per server for every ED account) etc. My point is that the HARM is almost useless against real world first world AA in non-desert map when real people would operate AA operations.

 

You need that A-G radar and moving map to know where you are flying. You need A-G radar capability to spot moving details in ground and filter them to be ground units to find them.

 

SEAD is done with assist from ground troops, lazing your targets. Required as AA is passive without emissions, even without radios so you can't even launch HARM against walkie talkies (what it's capable).

Ground units has methods to detect A-A and A-G radars and give range and direction. Ground units as well can only inform the coming low level aircrafts after passing to inform troops ahead for minutes before to be ready.

 

You wouldn't be there flying high either as you will be shot down by SAM and you will have fighters intercepting you. So you don't even launch HARM as it is useless when SAM is already behind you or below you.

 

Visually you wouldn't be bombing much as troops are inside forests, those are even better than any cave in Afghanistan. Even when A-G radars are told to be able see through trees under them, that ain't really true. You can see under few trees but a normal European Forest and you are blind as too much rocks and trunks and all vehicles are under nets covered against radars and visual spotting, tracks covered and locations changed periodically to avoid enemy intelligence mapping it.

 

All forests etc are filled with MANPADS, cannons, IR SAM etc. You don't go anywhere near with any HARMv missiles as you can't target them. You need to go and drop bombs. But what you really do is call an artillery strike as it is even today the most effective against anything. It still kill more infantry and vehicles than any other branch counted together.

 

HARM is only useful against dedicated early warning radars that takes over 15min to move. But even those are so well protected that HARM will not reach them as those get shot down. That is why cruise missiles exist, to fly low and hit them. You don't go anywhere near with HARM as it is waste of money and time.

 

That is why you don't fly with fully loaded aircrafts as you can't use them all. Two bombs is already plenty as you most often don't even use them. A high altitude bomber is the key, but you don't fly those when there is SAM and fighter patrols.

 

Everything is behind layers like onion. And you need to peel every single layer one by one out. And that is why you have tactical nukes and chemical weapons and area effect submunitions from rocket launchers, so you get them off with ground troops doing hard work.

 

Even today SEAD would be needed to be done with old fashion way as every ARM is useless as there ain't radiation to target for or that ain't gonna kill you in few seconds after you detect it.

 

And even if you manage to launch HARM, the search and guidance radars are already moving few seconds after that. Likely those were raised 20-30m above ground inside forests, blocking your HARM accuracy for platform and proximity detonation distance as it is already too far from them.

 

So far DCS had been about playing on billiard table. Trees not blocking anything from radars to IR to LOS and missiles.

We still have AI that doesn't know how to fire with cannons. AI that doesn't have even idea of surviving. AI that hasn't a logic for military operations.

 

What we have is imbecile ground units that sit on ground like a target on shooting range. The AI is good only for training a aircraft cockpit operations for procedure of weapons delivery. Not combat. Not weapons effect.

 

For every tank platoon there would be thousands of soldiers with small caliber weapons, up to 700-1000m altitude and ranges, dozens of HMG/cannons reaching up to 2-3km altitude or 3km ranges. Dozens MANPAD reaching 3-4km altitude or 5km ranges. Few IR platforms reaching 3-6km. Dozen IFV with few having automatic tracking to air targets up to 3-4km ranges.

None wouldn't give you any warning, impossible to try even target with HARM.

 

And all those layered for kilometres distances from the tank platoon or close proximity. Meaning you don't fly anywhere else than high over 7km. You don't get good changes to use any Mavericks either from low level.

 

All constantly moving, so next day it is different if not hours. Your next sortie can be kilometres further from last location. Wearing out the pilots as they would get lacking of intelligence. Requiring to get low and close to find targets. As pilots would need to be under 1500m distance visually spot something.

 

The whole idea that someone just flies in with HARM and gets kills is just totally wrong. Just like the actions A-G virtual pilots does or fighter pilots doing cat and mouse game 300m above ground etc.

 

That is all limitations of the engine capability to run thousands of ground units with AI for each unit follow command structure and have surviving skills etc.

 

Yes the HARM will _extend_ SEAD capability for BLUFOR, but doesn't add it, as it has always been there.

Our virtual pilots this date has mainly had only a RWR to tell them something. Very limited thing. While in reality you have kneeboard map with the lasts intelligence. Now in moving map assigned the threat areas. Data links to update it from all ground troops etc.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

Why do they continue the production of the HARM if its useless then ?

I think that this is subjective information. I do not know of any country that would like to brag about the effectiveness of an adversary countries weaponry. Just like some of the info we have heard about the effectiveness of cruise missile strikes.

Why do they continue the production of the HARM if its useless then ?

 

If you would just read what is written....

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

I think you may be over thinking the use of the HARM a little bit. HARM really from what I know of the weapon is meant for the large SAM sites, SA10, SA11, EWRs etc. as you say it's ineffective against shoot and scoot radars. Those are not in its operational envelope. It's after the strategic sites not the tactical. Going after weapons like SA15 with HARM is a bit rediculous and waste of an expensive weapon.

If you would just read what is written....

 

You wrote this, "Even today SEAD would be needed to be done with old fashion way as every ARM is useless as there ain't radiation to target for or that ain't gonna kill you in few seconds after you detect it."

 

I'm not sure what other way to take that.

There is an important factor here missing from this SEAD/DEAD discussion : weather

 

In BF and other popular servers it is always CAVOK, unlimited visibility. Try surpressing an SA-11 site with TGP and Mavs, when the visibility is 5 km (thats VFR minimum, not even bad weather) and maybe some low clouds...

SEAD is not about killing, it is about suppressing enemy air defense.

Check what "suppressing" means in military and you get the idea.

 

When you are overwhelmed by enemy and you can't kill them, then you suppress them so you can operate. Like you can suppress enemy air defense so you can go and destroy them.

 

And main way to do it is with bombs, rockets and even sometimes cannon, as least part of AA is behind radar or requiring a radar. Radars are used as well just to track your moves so your actions are known, but sometimes you can't touch the radar as it can be catastrophic to take any actions against them.

 

A standoff weapons from glide bombs, laser guided to GPS guided or TV guided perform far better than ARM missiles and are cheaper and easier to deliver on most cases.

 

A HARM doesn't destroy SAM site, but cluster bombs does.

A HARM can be fooled while it is in flight, but GPS guided bomb doesn't care of your radar status.

 

A recon squad lazing to you will be even more effective.

 

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

I'm not sure what your background is, but I'll offer mine. I've served in SEAD units for 10 of 17 years of service maintaining weapons systems. I've deployed. I've watched HUD tapes and T-Pod footage from downrange, I've loaded HARMs and fixed the video wires in the wings when they've gone bad. What I do is directly tied into the function of SEAD and I've had a lot of time to learn about it.

You need that A-G radar and moving map to know where you are flying. You need A-G radar capability to spot moving details in ground and filter them to be ground units to find them

 

I'm really not trying to sound insulting here so please dont take it that way.

 

Talking like this your going to lose your credibility very quickly. If anyone needs a moving map, ground radar and all of that stuff to do their jobs effectively than boy howdy the guys in 91 would have all gotten shot to hell by Iraqi SAMs and never hit a damn thing.

 

Your arguing that the HARM, a technologically advanced weapon is useless and we should all go weaseling with rockets, bombs and cannons of all things. All of which will get you a ride in a parachute in one of my missions. While In the same post your saying that you need a moving map, a2g radar and all of the new toys to be able to know where your at in the world come on now.

There's no sim that can run a sim battle of thousands visually in real time, there is that other sim that tries and does a good job to fake it, many of the missions are suicide and need tweaking. I do enjoy CMANO at times tho. The F/A-18 will be fun just being one of the elements in a package to be there to take out SAM sites.

 

It comes down to the campaign, they tend not to make them to hard like IRL war. I've setup and tested a few battles having "random" hidden treeline placement sams and AAA, even turning off the AI/radar etc until well in range. Try it scary stuff.

 

I do like how they setup the A-10C campaign (DCS NTTR A-10C Red Flag Campaign) to make it feel, just how they do it IRL for pilots that you are apart of a large package. Not to over overwhelmed with thousands of unit layers etc, plus that would cost way to much to setup IRL.

 

Little Quote out of mission 4

"A B-52 out of Barksdale will come in and launch some conventional air-launched cruise missiles (ALCM) at the SA-10 site at the southern airfield. Once that threat is neutralized, the Eagles will sweep west and then CAP over Quartzite and cover the strikers as they egress to the east."

 

"HARM shooters will take out the SA-11 at the northern airfield and also target the tactical SA-15s that are known to provide point defense at the two sites." end quote.

 

After the main push, you would still have patrols with HARM's and others with mavericks etc, just waiting or protecting other packages, just waiting for them to stick there head out.

 

A-10's still got hit by SA-13's, SA-16's in the Gulf War, even with all that tech looking in the area, these types of weapons are designed to be sneaky and seen last minute dot com. The problem is most will not enjoy the mission in DCS if it is two hard and they keep getting shot down, like the ability to get down low and use the gun etc.

 

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Edited April 25, 2018 by David OC