Some questions about the doppler

1) TWS mode , it is correct that when you "lock" a target in TWS mode, the enemy plane does not get a lock warning right ?

 

2) TWS mode, when i fire an AIM 120, when does my missile go to active scanning and give the enemy a "missile inbound" warning ?

 

3) TWS mode, when i fire a Sparrow, does my enemy get a "missile inbound" or "lock" warning at all ? (* nevermind, can't use sparrows in TWS )

 

4) I can not change the ANGLE in which my radar is scanning, right ? I can only move the beam up and down ?

 

5) Do i need to wait untill my radar has completed all 3 swipes before i can move up or down the beam to search my target ?

 

6) Moving up and down the radar beam, the numbers on the side, they are altitudes compared to my OWN altitude right ?

 

7) When i have locked a target in normal scanning mode (NOT "TWS" mode) , does my radar automatically adjusts the radar beam to keep track of the target ?

 

Sorry guys, it's been years can anyone answer me these questions ?

Edited February 2, 2013 by Maximus_Lazarus

1) TWS mode , it is correct that when you "lock" a target in TWS mode, the enemy plane does not get a lock warning right ?

 

Correnct

 

2) TWS mode, when i fire an AIM 120, when does my missile go to active scanning and give the enemy a "missile inbound" warning ?

 

When the missile is in range and gets a lock on the target

 

3) TWS mode, when i fire a Sparrow, does my enemy get a "missile inbound" or "lock" warning at all ? (* nevermind, can't use sparrows in TWS )

 

Sparrow does not have an active radar, therefore no TWS

 

4) - 7) I do not have any clue either.

1) TWS mode , it is correct that when you "lock" a target in TWS mode, the enemy plane does not get a lock warning right ?

 

Correct, and you actually "bug" the target in TWS which is different from hard "locking" it. The radar does not focus all its energy on the target in TWS. It rather keeps scanning the airspace around giving you updates every time the beam hits the contact. The latter is supposed to get a scan warning but not a lock warning.

 

2) TWS mode, when i fire an AIM 120, when does my missile go to active scanning and give the enemy a "missile inbound" warning ?

When TTA countdown hits 0. TTA (Time to Activation) is displayed on the VSD and informs you about time remaining for the last AMRAAM to go active.

 

3) TWS mode, when i fire a Sparrow, does my enemy get a "missile inbound" or "lock" warning at all ? (* nevermind, can't use sparrows in TWS )

 

4) I can not change the ANGLE in which my radar is scanning, right ? I can only move the beam up and down ?

By default the F-15 scans 120 degrees azimuth in which case you will have focus on elevation only. However, you can still switch to 60 degrees azimuth if you want a faster refresh rate on a specific zone and in that case you can control the radar horizontally as well.

 

5) Do i need to wait untill my radar has completed all 3 swipes before i can move up or down the beam to search my target ?

Strongly recommended, otherwise you would miss a potential contact.

 

6) Moving up and down the radar beam, the numbers on the side, they are altitudes compared to my OWN altitude right ?

Those numbers show you the lowest and the highest you radar is currently scanning in term of altitude.

 

7) When i have locked a target in normal scanning mode (NOT "TWS" mode) , does my radar automatically adjusts the radar beam to keep track of the target ?

In TWS, you have to manually keep the contact inside the cone. In STT (Single Target Track), the radar operates automatically both horizontally and vertically.

1) TWS mode , it is correct that when you "lock" a target in TWS mode, the enemy plane does not get a lock warning right ?

 

Correct, because you're not really locking the target in the sense of going STT. In TWS the terminology is 'bug' the target. What you're really doing is telling the fire control system 'designate this track for missile guidance'.

 

2) TWS mode, when i fire an AIM 120, when does my missile go to active scanning and give the enemy a "missile inbound" warning ?

 

When the missile is about 5-7nm from the target.

 

3) TWS mode, when i fire a Sparrow, does my enemy get a "missile inbound" or "lock" warning at all ? (* nevermind, can't use sparrows in TWS )

 

Right, STT all the way.

 

4) I can not change the ANGLE in which my radar is scanning, right ? I can only move the beam up and down ?

 

If you narrow the azimuth, you can also move the azimuth.

 

5) Do i need to wait untill my radar has completed all 3 swipes before i can move up or down the beam to search my target ?

 

If you want a complete sweep of the volume you're currently sweeping, yes, you need to complete all 4 bars of the scan.

 

6) Moving up and down the radar beam, the numbers on the side, they are altitudes compared to my OWN altitude right ?

 

No, they are absolute altitude above mean sea level, at the TDC range.

 

7) When i have locked a target in normal scanning mode (NOT "TWS" mode) , does my radar automatically adjusts the radar beam to keep track of the target ?

 

Yes, obviously ... :)

 

Sorry guys, it's been years can anyone answer me these questions ?

 

You haven't asked anything about doppler though.

Awesome thx a lot :)

 

I did some testing with mission editor.

 

I had 2 SU25's , and one IL78 at about the same altitude (20.000 ft) flying away from me .

 

A couple of things i noticed.

 

1) The IL78 showed up on radar before the other 2 planes. I'm guessing this is because it's the biggest aircraft ?

What i mean is, is this modelled into the game ?

 

2) I flew at the same altitude as the enemy aircraft. So when i turn on my radar, the radar cone is poiting straight forward yes ?

Meaning going 5 (?) degrees below my plane and 5 degrees above if the total cone would be 10 degrees ?

 

Keeping that in mind, meaning let's say my radar was tuned in right , is it possible that the SU25T's only showed up at about 20 miles distance ?

 

Is that about the reach of the radar ? (and yes i did change scan range so that the targets would show up if i was tagging them )

 

 

p.s: The doppler is the radar system used in the F15 no ?

 

p.s #2 : Oh and i meant the radar cone's angle in height so to speak. That is fixed right ?

 

It's not like i can increase that angle (scan more below and above me) , at the cost of range right ?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2013 by Maximus_Lazarus

1) The IL78 showed up on radar before the other 2 planes. I'm guessing this is because it's the biggest aircraft ?

What i mean is, is this modelled into the game ?

 

Yes it is. Those aircraft usually have a larger RCS.

 

2) I flew at the same altitude as the enemy aircraft. So when i turn on my radar, the radar cone is poiting straight forward yes ?

Meaning going 5 (?) degrees below my plane and 5 degrees above if the total cone would be 10 degrees ?

 

Yes, though I'm not sure if the total is 10 degrees or 20, I forget.

 

Keeping that in mind, meaning let's say my radar was tuned in right , is it possible that the SU25T's only showed up at about 20 miles distance ?

 

Is that about the reach of the radar ? (and yes i did change scan range so that the targets would show up if i was tagging them )

 

That's about the range for co-altitude rear-aspect targets, yes, best to use MPRF with those. Head-on targets will appear much further out.

 

p.s: The doppler is the radar system used in the F15 no ?

 

The radar system used in the F-15 is the AN/APG-63. It has several versions, and all of them, like most modern radars, are primarily of a pulse-doppler design.

 

p.s #2 : Oh and i meant the radar cone's angle in height so to speak. That is fixed right ?

 

It's not like i can increase that angle (scan more below and above me) , at the cost of range right ?

 

Correct, it is a fixed size ... I don't see why you would think you would pay in range for increasing it though. You pay in scan time. But changing the number of bars is not a feature available to FC aircraft.

Ok final question, for now (sry lol)

 

The russian planes have a very handy Missile warning system .

 

From the F15 i can only remember that you could see something on the far right screen , but not distance .

 

Also sometimes a missile would show up on the radar screen as a little dot .

 

But, does the F15 have something similar as the fussian planes ? (that thingy with the lights all around)

Neither american nor russian systems show "range" on the RWS. What you are seeing is detected emitter strength, which obviously goes up as the emitter gets closer. But a weak emitter that is close can very easily give the same indication as a strong emitter that is far away.

 

American RWS (as modeled in DCS) does a similar thing: the closer to center that the indication is, the more dangerous it is, usually as a function of being closer. The exact implementation in FC3 I don't quite remember though, and I am abroad so I don't have my machine available to take a quick look. But basically, you can "get away with" thinking of it like "closer to center = closer". Just like with the russian RWS as modeled, this isn't entirely correct, but close enough.

Neither american nor russian systems show "range" on the RWS....

 

With clever spycraft it is reasonably ascertainable - herewith diagram of the Turkey:

 

 

Range in km's.

Yeah, what I meant was that it's not what is being displayed - but it can of course be used for this with sufficient knowledge. (Kinda like using the AoA indexer on the A-10 to find your correct approach speed; it's not actually what is done, but it gets you to roughly the right place anyhow. Though that one requires less knowledge than interpreting RWR indicators as range, of course.)

So we can conclude that the russian radar threat warning is a lot better than the US one i guess .

 

Meh i'll probably be flying the mig when the full game comes out anyway

 

Look at this .. what a beautifull piece of equipment

 

fdE3GDuZrK8

Edited February 2, 2013 by Maximus_Lazarus

Well, if we're talking about it as implemented in FC3, perhaps.

 

In reality things are different. There are a lot of things the american system does that is not implemented - not in FC3 and not in DCS A-10C either - because it's rediculously secret. (Though there are some functions that can be deduced should be there in the american system, but when there's no documentation that can be used, it becomes a question of whether to guess or just leave it with what is known and ignore the rest.)

So we can conclude that the Russian radar threat warning is a lot better than the US one i guess .

 

 

Pros/Cons for each. The Russian one gives a better indication for signal strength, but the American one can ID specific types of radar, and indicate all their positions simultaneously. Whether one or the other is "a lot better" is open for debate.

In the sim. In RL the TEWS is flat out better, and gives you more information.

 

Pros/Cons for each.

So we can conclude that the russian radar threat warning is a lot better than the US one i guess .

 

Meh i'll probably be flying the mig when the full game comes out anyway

 

Look at this .. what a beautifull piece of equipment

 

Caution comrade, American RWR has significant advantages over its russian counterpart. One of them is the ability to see all threats at the same time which is not possible on the Russian warning receiver as it's capable of displaying only one primary threat and one secondary threat at a time.

This could make the difference between life and death in a target enriched environment. TEWS provides a much better overall SA.

 

There is also another 'weakness'. Russian RWR will always give priority to a 'hard lock' even if there is a much closer threat 'painting' you. This could potentially spoil your SA against TWS/AMRAAM threats until it goes 'pitbull'.

Flood mode .

 

Select sparrows, press 6 .

 

Radar is OFF . Sparrow has no onboard radar.

 

I shoot at target , why does target start evasive manouvres ?

 

How does it know a missile is chasing him ? (IL76)

FLOOD commands the FLOOD horn on, which radiated to guide the Sparrow.

Yeah, so how does my enemy know a missile is inbound ?

 

He's not locked on, my radar isn't even on

Yeah, so how does my enemy know a missile is inbound ?

 

He's not locked on, my radar isn't even on

 

Radar enters FLOOD, it is on. In fact, it is on in the most dramatic manner possible for a radar - FLOOD. The reason it's called "FLOOD" is that it basically blasts power as strongly as it can, and the missile, also in FLOOD mode, simply heads for the strongest reflection.

 

Basically, FLOOD overrides other normal modes. It is on. It's operating in the electromagnetic equivalent of a thermonuclear explosion... :P

 

FLOOD specifically is there to not need a "lock".

 

(When GG said "radiated", that is "emitted", that is "the radar is on".)

Yeah, so how does my enemy know a missile is inbound ?

 

He's not locked on, my radar isn't even on

 

 

No, the enemy doesn't know a missile is inbound, he just knows he is being locked up. But, if he is looking out the pit, he might see the smoke trail of the missile.

If he's being FLOODed, he has a missile coming, he should know this :P FLOOD should be immediate cause for the RWR to scream missile launch.

 

Yeah, so how does my enemy know a missile is inbound ?

 

He's not locked on, my radar isn't even on

Radar enters FLOOD, it is on. In fact, it is on in the most dramatic manner possible for a radar - FLOOD. The reason it's called "FLOOD" is that it basically blasts power as strongly as it can, and the missile, also in FLOOD mode, simply heads for the strongest reflection.

 

Basically, FLOOD overrides other normal modes. It is on. It's operating in the electromagnetic equivalent of a thermonuclear explosion... :P

 

FLOOD specifically is there to not need a "lock".

 

(When GG said "radiated", that is "emitted", that is "the radar is on".)

 

Oh lol :D

 

So Flood is basically a radiation CANNON ? And anything in it's circle will light up like christmas tree for rocket to follow ?

 

 

Damn, here i was thinking the F-15 had a stealthy way of attacking now

 

:joystick:

 

:P

Oh lol :D

 

So Flood is basically a radiation CANNON ? And anything in it's circle will light up like christmas tree for rocket to follow ?

 

 

Damn, here i was thinking the F-15 had a stealthy way of attacking now

 

:joystick:

 

:P

 

It does, it's called TWS :D

 

In FLOOD mode, your missile will go for the biggest return in that circle, it doesn't care if it's a friendly or enemy. Even if the only thing in the circle is the bad guy....if your buddy flies into it, the missile could attack him.

meh TWS is not that great.

 

Your radar is on .

They can hear you pinging them.

They can hear the 120 go active

And the 'lock' is weak, if they make a sharp turn or go high/down you lose them :-(

I certainly got some educating here with you guys offering some very interesting points of view with good information and some valid pros and cons.

I've been flying exclusively the MIG 29 from day 1 and have recently changed to the F15, now reading and prcticing a lot. I like that the F15 is able to IFF automaticlally. I find so far the F15 TWS mode and the RWR offer good tactical information of the combat area while at the same time being able to lock/fire on one or mutiple targets.

 

Lots of practicing to do, keep the info coming.

Thank you.