X56: has anyone truly fixed the throttle ghosting issue?

Who the FECK designed this HOTAS?

Obviously people who dont use it and have no clue.

Also, still using pots???

Joystick is on a shelf not connected at all during this testing, just FYI.

Opened it up took everything apart.

Did not see any signs of anything mentioned above such as cracking cables etc.   The wires were very flexible in mine so I think later models did get some new wiring.

While testing moved throttle and watched the ghosting happen in Logitech software... sometimes so bad all the switches towards front would glow.

Found the harness inside right throttle assembly was twisted on itself about 6 times to shorten it... thinking maybe it was too tight...untwisted and put it back together.  Nope still ghosting.

Started removing items from the unit one at a time.   Left throttle.  Still happened, both RTRY3 and RTRY4, still happened.

I stand corrected that there is some type of USB issue here.

I did all this testing on a USB3.0 powered hub going to MB connector.

Tried EVERY damn port on MB.

I know this was mentioned above but I honestly did not buy into this as a fix.... connecting the throttle straight to one of the mb headers that runs to front of case.... NO GHOSTING whatsoever.   WTH.   NONE.  

I moved the throttle like a mad man nothin, no ghosting.

I suggest trying your unit straight to one of those USB headers.   I tried both USB3.0, and both USB 2.0 on front of case.   ALL WORKED no ghosting.

Thinking too good to be true I put Joystick on USB3.0 hub.   All working no ghosting.      

@Mower "Damn Straight."

5 hours ago, Tantrumus said:

Joystick is on a shelf not connected at all during this testing, just FYI.

 

Opened it up took everything apart.

 

Did not see any signs of anything mentioned above such as cracking cables etc.   The wires were very flexible in mine so I think later models did get some new wiring.

 

While testing moved throttle and watched the ghosting happen in Logitech software... sometimes so bad all the switches towards front would glow.

 

Found the harness inside right throttle assembly was twisted on itself about 6 times to shorten it... thinking maybe it was too tight...untwisted and put it back together.  Nope still ghosting.

 

Started removing items from the unit one at a time.   Left throttle.  Still happened, both RTRY3 and RTRY4, still happened.

 

I stand corrected that there is some type of USB issue here.

 

I did all this testing on a USB3.0 powered hub going to MB connector.

 

Tried EVERY damn port on MB.

 

I know this was mentioned above but I honestly did not buy into this as a fix.... connecting the throttle straight to one of the mb headers that runs to front of case.... NO GHOSTING whatsoever.   WTH.   NONE.  

 

I moved the throttle like a mad man nothin, no ghosting.

 

I suggest trying your unit straight to one of those USB headers.   I tried both USB3.0, and both USB 2.0 on front of case.   ALL WORKED no ghosting.

 

Thinking too good to be true I put Joystick on USB3.0 hub.   All working no ghosting.      

 

@Mower "Damn Straight."

 

 

Interesting post...

I have the X-56 'grey' plugged into a non-powered 4 input hub shared with my VR hmd, and 3 controllers including the X-56 which in turn is plugged into a powered USB port [1ml/amp].  I'm assuming ghosting refers to buttons getting spontaneously activated without pressing them.  I thought I had ghosting but I believe it was mapping conflicts causing the issue, once I cleaned that up no issues.  I have also turned off all effect lighting as I fly VR.  I did open the stick to lubricate the twist mechanism and was impressed with the detail of the wiring...no pinch points and very flexible.

The only other mod I've done is the removal of the stick tension spring mechanism, replacing it with the 4 corner external spring setup mod [seen on this forum].  This mod removed my frustration with the stick's center slop making ease of mid-air refuelling an absolute pleasure.

If there was a wire harness pinch issue it would be occurring with the same buttons and I wouldn't call this electronic ghosting...I'd call it a short in the wire harness.

16 hours ago, fitness88 said:

Interesting post...

I have the X-56 'grey' plugged into a non-powered 4 input hub shared with my VR hmd, and 3 controllers including the X-56 which in turn is plugged into a powered USB port [1ml/amp].  I'm assuming ghosting refers to buttons getting spontaneously activated without pressing them.  I thought I had ghosting but I believe it was mapping conflicts causing the issue, once I cleaned that up no issues.  I have also turned off all effect lighting as I fly VR.  I did open the stick to lubricate the twist mechanism and was impressed with the detail of the wiring...no pinch points and very flexible.

The only other mod I've done is the removal of the stick tension spring mechanism, replacing it with the 4 corner external spring setup mod [seen on this forum].  This mod removed my frustration with the stick's center slop making ease of mid-air refuelling an absolute pleasure.

If there was a wire harness pinch issue it would be occurring with the same buttons and I wouldn't call this electronic ghosting...I'd call it a short in the wire harness.

 

Yeah so my ghosting was so bad that I could open the Logitech software and go to the programming section and simply move the throttle and watch as a variety of other buttons / switches would light up orange.   It would only be flickers but that is enough to ruin your gameplay.

Once I realized that my unit didnt show the same issues as the video after disassembling the unit I figured I would start trying to find what is causing the problem by unplugging one cable at a time hoping to find something.  I took it to the point where pretty much only the right throttle was actively plugged in .... still buttons on the right throttle would light up... such as both rotary buttons... that slider switch, sometimes the little 4 way silver hats would engage.

Was really getting frustrated.   Actually chucked the unit in the garbage once and said screw this crap I'm gonna buy that Vrpil throttle (sp?).... Came to my senses got the unit out of trash and put the damn thing all back together.   A friend of mine was adamant that putting it on the USB that came off the headers of the mb that ran to front of case solved HIS issues (also an X56 owner) ... wished I had talked to him earlier in day.    It fixed everything.

While I had it apart the throttle moved very easily so let me tell ya I beat the crap out of moving it around and could not get it to ghost anymore.   Worked on either header USB3 or USB2 (i have two of each on front of case.)    

Put it all back together.

Played 4 hours of Elite without a single ghost press.  Not once did I get a random afterburner while trying to land LOL!!!! 

7 minutes ago, Tantrumus said:

Yeah so my ghosting was so bad that I could open the Logitech software and go to the programming section and simply move the throttle and watch as a variety of other buttons / switches would light up orange.   It would only be flickers but that is enough to ruin your gameplay.

 

Once I realized that my unit didnt show the same issues as the video after disassembling the unit I figured I would start trying to find what is causing the problem by unplugging one cable at a time hoping to find something.  I took it to the point where pretty much only the right throttle was actively plugged in .... still buttons on the right throttle would light up... such as both rotary buttons... that slider switch, sometimes the little 4 way silver hats would engage.

 

Was really getting frustrated.   Actually chucked the unit in the garbage once and said screw this crap I'm gonna buy that Vrpil throttle (sp?).... Came to my senses got the unit out of trash and put the damn thing all back together.   A friend of mine was adamant that putting it on the USB that came off the headers of the mb that ran to front of case solved HIS issues (also an X56 owner) ... wished I had talked to him earlier in day.    It fixed everything.

 

While I had it apart the throttle moved very easily so let me tell ya I beat the crap out of moving it around and could not get it to ghost anymore.   Worked on either header USB3 or USB2 (i have two of each on front of case.)    

 

Put it all back together.

 

Played 4 hours of Elite without a single ghost press.  Not once did I get a random afterburner while trying to land LOL!!!! 

Glad it all worked out...next try the spring mod you won't be thinking Virpil again!

The Warthog is stupidly overpriced and short on stock, so, is the x56 a viable replacement for my near dead Cougar?

5 hours ago, Mower said:

The Warthog is stupidly overpriced and short on stock, so, is the x56 a viable replacement for my near dead Cougar?

I would say yes provided you do the 4 spring mod...very easy to do!

It's posted in the X-56 forum.

So my new x56 throttle is showing consistent ghosting as well. I've tried all the non-warranty-voiding actions like powered hubs, 2.0 vs 3.0 ports, front ports, back ports, removing all other USB devices. Some combinations are worse than others, but there is no combination that eliminated ghosting and I'm working through a ticket with Logi support.

The smoking gun to me is that I have 3 Win 10 machines - My gaming PC, another desktop, and a laptop. When I installed everything in the other desktop and the laptop, to my surprise neither of them showed *any* occurrence of a ghost presses. Beat the heck out of the throttle for 5 full minutes on each and works perfectly. Pop it back into my Gaming PC and ghosting about every 4-5 seconds with throttle movement.  That tells me it's some USB/power thing that is unique to my gaming PC and the stick itself is most likely not "defective" in the sense that it is not workable. There is an argument to make that it's still defective in the sense that it is not working properly on my system of choice...I'm not sure how Logi will respond - hopefully they are still responsible for getting it to work.

I'm going to continue to pursue BIOS/firmware/USB driver options as well. Maybe a PCIe USB card, although I'm not sure I understand why that's different than ports off the MB or the back panel...?

My motherboard is a Gigabyte X570-UD w/750w PS new last year.

I am hoping that in the next 2 or 3 months AMD figures out the root cause related to the USB Ports on 500 Series System Boards. 

There are many related stories on the USB issue on newer AMD Boards. 

One Example: https://www.pcseekers.tech/2021/02/amd-b550-x570-motherboard-usb-problem.html

YSIAD_RIP, thanks for that link - I had not stumbled on the USB issues with x570 AMD boards. Oddly enough I finally got some of my USB ports to work before looking at that, although the x570 workarounds did not help the rest of the ports so I assume there are still board issues they still have to fix.

I do have positive news on the "ghosting" x56: after following some of the steps provided by Logi support, I was able to get the x56 working cleanly on my back panel USB 3.x ports.

Here are the steps I think made a difference:

- updated x570 bios

- removed all drivers for saitek (both my old x52pro and my x56)

- updated NET framework to latest

- reinstall USB/chipset MB drivers

- do a clean boot ( https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360023183914 )

- reinstall x56 drivers

Not sure exactly which made a difference, but my gut says bios and the clean boot option which removed all of the startup noise and other software that might get in the way.

After all that, I still had ghosting when my x56 is connected to USB 2.x (back or front) or a USB 3.x powered hub - but surprisingly when connected to USB 3.x back panel there is ZERO ghosting. Tested it all weekend and it is rock solid. The implication is that ghosting is not a mechanical problem with the x56, but a driver/usb issue with the motherboard. One could argue that the x56 still has a mechanical issue in that it is too sensitive to some of this and that is why protecting the wires from interference sometimes helps.

I guess the key is whether your stick shows ghosting on any other pc or laptop you test it on. 

I will chime in as well, since this seems to be an on-going issue. However, I just got an X56 today, and only used it for a few hours, but had read about the ghosting before getting it, and saw it happen immediately to me. I also, have not tried any fixes yet, simply installed the software, plugged the throttle into the back of my Motherboard, and the Stick to the front USB on my case. I also have a Gigabyte X570 Gaming X MoBo (but have not had any USB issues until now). I do not currently have any free USB ports either. I have a Ryzen 5 3000 series and from what I read the 3000 series didn't seem to have the USB issues the 5000 did with the 550/570 chipsets

As soon as I hopped in my plane, I noticed it. I also noticed, it seemed to happen ALOT more once I tuned my rotary knobs and was using them, before I was able to get in the air and do a 1 hour training session, the bottom 3 switches (gear,flaps,hook) went off maybe 5-6 times during the flight, but I was able to quickly fix it and still fly. Later I set my RTY 1 and 2 Knobs to an axis command, and once I twisted them I was getting ghosting from more then the 3 switches every 10-15 seconds, I couldn't even start my plane. I also had my throttles unhinged and moved them separately. This makes me think once it gets more than a few inputs it starts bugging out, which would correlate with some people saying it happened less with LED's off, or rotary's centered/not used, etc. I mean who knows, maybe it could be just too many raw inputs at once to send thru 1 USB plug, which might also explain why the stick doesn't really have any ghosting issues. I'm no expert so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I am getting a 7-port powered USB hub, to do some testing with, I will also try what Tantrumus said, by plugging in to the front. I will post my results tomorrow.

Perhaps it's due to how the data is encoded and sent which makes it more sensitive to some electrical interference from the PSU or something?

I don't own a AMD x570 yet, but it is on my wishlist.

I hope the coming April AMD AGESA 1.2.02 update fixes USB issues including any on X56.

 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16554/amd-set-to-roll-out-agesa-firmware-usb-fix-for-ryzen-coming-april

Sorry for the delay, had a busy couple days.

Ok So, first thing I did was plug my throttle into the front USB port, and stick into the rear port. Seemed to help MAYBE a bit. Next thing I did was turn LED brightness off, and issues seemed to have fixed themselves, did 3-4 hours in a few different A/C and no issues (I even tried to test it, by flipping multiple switches at once). 

Got my USB hub in the mail, plugged my keyboard and mouse into the hub and turned the other 4 ports off. That hub goes into the back of my PC into a 3.0 slot, with my stick next to it. TrackIR and webcam are plugged into the 2 USB 2.0 slots in the back. The Throttle and my headset adapter are plugged into the front of my case on the 3.0 slots. I don't have any rhyme or reason to why I set my things up like that, mostly cord management and I figured minimize the USB load into the PC, which is why I plugged my mouse/keyboard into the hub, I also don't know if turning off the unused ports on the hub does anything, I just did it.

Since doing that, I have done probably another 6+ hours of flying and only had one issue. I also messed with the LED's a bit, I was able to put a single color (Green or Red) at 100 and it's still ok. 

After the one issue, I opened the software and saw that the little pinky "dial" on the throttle was stuck in a press, once I cleared it, I haven't had an issue since. I also don't put it past it to happen every so often, so chalk it up to that as well. 

I still suspect from the remedies people have found, that it is indeed a power/single plug issue, once the LEDs are bright, and you push 3+ buttons at once it goes bonkers. Heck, my keyboard has 2 USB plugs for it. Sadly something like that will most likely never get a fix because it doesn't make any sense for Logitech to change it to 2 USB plugs, and while you could probably split it yourself, most people including myself probably won't.

Does anyone happen to know if its possible to totally disable input from a slider/rotary? I ask because right now I don't use the 2 rotary dials on the throttle and they are so easy to jiggle, it would be nice to just disable an input from it, same with the little slider bar, I have no use for that. Just trying to think of possible ways to take the workload off for things people may not use.

9 hours ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

I don't own a AMD x570 yet, but it is on my wishlist.

I hope the coming April AMD AGESA 1.2.02 update fixes USB issues including any on X56.

 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16554/amd-set-to-roll-out-agesa-firmware-usb-fix-for-ryzen-coming-april

Yeah, its almost like when the 3 series first came out alot of chipsets weren't good for it, and people had to buy older cpu's just to flash the bios. That's why I spend the extra money and got the 570 chipset. I had heard a few others that seemed to work, but better safe than sorry. 

On 7/9/2020 at 1:19 AM, symowallo said:

Hi all

 

Have a fairly new (3 months) X56, awaiting Logitech to get stock so I can have a replacement throttle shipped to me - very frustrating delay, but patience is a virtue... so they say. (I had a broken tension knob and due to the delays in sending me a replacement, I tried it out and I'm getting ghosting).

 

Here's the issue:

 

1. - Getting regular ghosting from the switches - all of them
2. - I even started getting some ghosting from the on-throttle hats
3. - The 3 way switch/button on the throttle is semi-stuck, making it unusable. Works occasionally however mapping it to chaff/flares was a disaster - random CHAFF! FLARE! as the button gets stuck on the top/bottom position.

 

 

Here's what I've tried to fix the first 2 issues:

 

 

• Tried a generic powered USB hub. No change
• Tried a brand new TP-Link powered 7-port USB3 hub with its own power (4+Amps). Still ghosting. Probably less often though. Stick is fine. Just the throttle with the issues
• Installed a 7 port USB3 Orico powered PCI-E card in the computer, from which I run only the throttle (everything else is either on the computer or on the TP-Link hub). Was ghosting less often until last night when I tried out the F-16 - constant ghosting including on the hat switches on the throttle. Way worse than before. I've even turned the LEDs off, thinking it was an EMI issue.

 

 

Will look at the ferrite-core solution shortly, depending on when I receive the replacement throttle - however I'm not convinced that this is not an issue with others as well, as I've seen numerous comments about this ghosting issue from others too. I might still end up with the same problem with the replacement.

 

My question to the group is: has anyone ever truly fixed this issue with the ferrite core fix? Maybe I just have a dud and the replacement will be fine, however due to poor stock availability from Logitech, I was considering going with a Thrustmaster TWCS 16000 to accompany the X56 stick as it's been 3 months of unreliable simming so far whilst awaiting Logitech to get their act together. Anyone tried this combo? The TWCS seems to be a reasonable throttle.

I had this problem. I was plugged into USB plugs that was the Problem. FIX: moved from my Monitor USB OUTS to my COMPUTER OUTS. No More Ghosting.

I used the X-55 (X-56 with fewer mini sticks but more hats) for 5-6 years. I had ghosting issues off and on for a long time. A powered USB hub fixed most of it but not always. One thing I eventually noticed is it seems heavily susceptible to interference. Using a powered USB hub (PCI-E card with extra power plug from PSU) and routing the wires well away from the PSU, GPU, any case fans and my desktop speakers seemed to resolve the issues completely. Obviously that's a whole lot of junk that shouldn't be needed, but I never had any ghosting problems once doing that unless the wires drifted back towards something they shouldn't.

Turning off the illumination worked for me thanks.