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Ракеты в DCS

Chizh

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GGTharos

GGTharos

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Posted

^^^^

 

 

Targets did not want to be hit, so they would turn off their radars, as well as use radio decoys.

 

 

The missile was very effective not because it destroyed targets but because those SAMs kept their emissions quiet to avoid being hit by all those HARMs in that were in flight waiting to find those radars.

 

 

You shoot pre-briefed missiles on schedule so that they are present while your strike aircraft are doing their work and keep the SAMs silent.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Chizh
Chizh

В ближайшем апдейте будут изменения по ракетам всего семейства Р-27. На основании CFD исследований, мы изменили форму зависимости лобового сопротивления и распределение тяги двигателя по режимам

MaxMPower
MaxMPower

Отставание в количестве, или в нанотехнологичности? Я говорил о боевых возможностях ракет. Дальность, манёвренность, «логика работы». Мои слова относятся к тем типам боеприпасов которые сейчас непос

BlackPixxel
BlackPixxel

Against your ridiculous claim, why don't you take a look at your Su-27 DLZ simulation software? In this post you made years ago, you wrote down the ranges at ZPS and 1100 km for fighter and targe

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Chizh

Chizh

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Posted (edited)
А чем обусловлена такая низкая эффективность? В игре вполне себе ракета.

С чужим излучением всегда очень сложно работать.

В DCS не учитываются все особенности распространения радиоволн, характерные для отдельных радаров паттерны лепестков, переотражения от местности, строений и т.д.

Поэтому и эффективность ПРР в DCS весьма высокая.

Для имитации реальности работы РЛС нужно отдельный симулятор делать.


Edited by Chizh

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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BlackPixxel

BlackPixxel

Posted
Posted

It appears that the negative effects of ECM on the Aim-120 guidance got reduced alot with the recent patches.

 

So we are back to a state of DCS were taking Sorbtsya pods on the Su-27 results in massive disadvantages when flying against Aim-120, even tough those massive ECM pods are designed to counter enemy radars and radar guided missiles.

 

With the earlier versions of DCS at least the HOJ guidance was worse, and a burnthrough of the missile seeker was represented.

But right now ECM allows the launch aircraft to drop the support instantly, and the missile will guide perfectly towards the target, with loft and lead. ECM gives the missile magic INS with no disadvantage.

 

What is the idea behind that?

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BlackPixxel

BlackPixxel

Posted
Posted

SARH Chaffbug

 

Automatic transition from radar to IRST can still cause the chaffbug.

 

For demonstration I roll after firing close to the ground, which makes the lock transition to IRST only for a moment. The missiles instantly switch from the target to UNILLUMINATED chaff (Radar is OFF when inverted).

 

 

Track is attached.

Chaffbug2809.trk

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Маэстро

Маэстро

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Automatic transition from radar to IRST can still cause the chaffbug.

 

For demonstration I roll after firing close to the ground, which makes the lock transition to IRST only for a moment. The missiles instantly switch from the target to UNILLUMINATED chaff (Radar is OFF when inverted).

 

Track is attached.

 

We remember about this issue. Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy solution(it requires rework of fundamentals of radar mechanics and chaff, which may cause other problems). So, please be patient, complete solution will take a long time.

YouTube Channel

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Кош

Кош

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Posted (edited)

Тем временем:

"синих опустили".


Edited by Кош

ППС  АВТ 100 60 36  Ф <  |  >  !  ПД  К

i5-10600k/32GB 3600/SSD NVME/4070ti/2560x1440'32/VPC T-50 VPC T-50CM3 throttle Saitek combat rudder

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milit

milit

Posted
Posted
Тем временем:

"синих опустили".

Пусть руки выпрямляют. Сейчас хоть увернуться стало возможно от этого лазергана, а не драпать всеми лапами.

=WRAG=345

R7 5800X @ 4,8 GHz; DDR4 32Gb RAM (+32Gb swap); Radeon RX 6800 16Gb; 3840x2160; Win10-64

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Кош

Кош

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Posted (edited)
Пусть руки выпрямляют. Сейчас хоть увернуться стало возможно от этого лазергана, а не драпать всеми лапами.

 

Они там на полном серьезе пишут что увернуться должно быть нельзя. Что времени в нотче достаточно слишком мало, что почему захватывает ДО а потом не бросает ДО когда самолет выйдет из нотча, ДО ведь замедлилось из допплеровского сдвига итд. Жалуются на малость угла обзора головы :megalol: .


Edited by Кош

ППС  АВТ 100 60 36  Ф <  |  >  !  ПД  К

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jager_jager

jager_jager

Posted
Posted
Пусть руки выпрямляют. Сейчас хоть увернуться стало возможно от этого лазергана, а не драпать всеми лапами.

 

а что конкретно изменили?

PC Specs: i7 10700k, 32gb DDR 4 3200mhz, RTX 2060 super, ssd m.2

VKB Gladiator NXT, Warthog Throttle.

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milit

milit

Posted
Posted
а что конкретно изменили?

Уход 120к на ДО.

Вернули коэффициент "к старому значению" (с) Чиж

=WRAG=345

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Кош

Кош

Posted
Posted (edited)
Спойлер: И она будет реализована :)

 

Уже ж была, но признали слишком палевной и откатили. Вообще впервые почитал Хоггит и сильно впечатлился насколько градус фанбоизма, квасного поцреотизма и "не имеет аналогов" обставляет рос ТВ при этом их там никто не обзывает.

 

Вообще конечно от логики ДО как таковой, скопированной с ЛТЦ страдают все, просто то одна то другая сторона вайнит громче. Остается ждать и надеятся на отдельную логику ДО и радийных голов.


Edited by Кош

ППС  АВТ 100 60 36  Ф <  |  >  !  ПД  К

i5-10600k/32GB 3600/SSD NVME/4070ti/2560x1440'32/VPC T-50 VPC T-50CM3 throttle Saitek combat rudder

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BlackPixxel

BlackPixxel

Posted
Posted
We remember about this issue. Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy solution(it requires rework of fundamentals of radar mechanics and chaff, which may cause other problems). So, please be patient, complete solution will take a long time.

 

Mhmm, it seems that just adding a simple condition to ignore the chaff mechanic when the radar is in EOS only would do the trick.

 

The R-27R/ER is completely useless in mutiplayer because of this bug. The only reason I can make kills with the R-27ER is that most opponents are beginners.

Any half decent player is immune to R-27ER, because he will always trash the R-27ER using the bug by changing aspect.

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Pöri

Pöri

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Read please, interesting!

 

 

If we talk about combat (BVR) or beyond visual range the SU-30MK2 first detected the F 16 but affordable range of BVR both SU-30MK2 and F 16 is 130km course not shoot one BVR his greater reach BVR broader FACH is the AIM-120 AMRAAM C-7 130km is fire and forget although it has created a myth the AIM-120 AMRAAM C-7 will load data of attitude, speed and location white is a lie that the small internal radar AIM-120-C 7 detects a type of aircraft SU-30MK2 120km the Royar Air Force in tests found that with older aircraft with discontinued systems is effective but against aircraft that have advanced systems that can detect AIM-120-C-7 to time it loses effectiveness so they deciding to use the option of transmitting contantes data to the missile AIM-120-C-7 has a GPS system the BVR far-reaching Venezuela is the R-27er 130km missile launcher constantly receives data plane which gives a greater chance of success. Although this is a missile with a semi-radar missiles activoTambién SARH are very deadly in narrower ranges (R-27 vs R-77, Sparrow vs. AMRAAM). The reason for this is that the radar fighter emits far more energy than the radar seeker missile While in the wing, the missile seeker SARH closed much faster than the missile seeker ARH going to take a bit of latency " looking for "the goal before it gets a lock on the SARH missile, on the other hand, it can be" snap "shot

Once fired, the missile SARH not reveal its position RWR the target, because it is completely passive. RWR target only tell where the direction of the radiant fighter and how close the radar fighter who is radiographed target This means that you do not know how to evade the incoming missile. The ARH missile could alert the RWR when going active and where it comes from, allowing the object of an evasive maneuver

Sukhoi-30MK2 has the IRST / LASER OEPS-27 is a system for detecting and tracking aerial targets with IR up to 90 km and a laser rangefinder for light air and ground targets to aim the cannon, bombs and missiles The F16 BLOCK 50 PEACE PUMA lacks this type of own system IRST / LASER OEPS-27 tests in Russia could detect an albatross 30km it is also effective for detecting BVR BVR missiles since the time of shooting to generate a large kinetic force. Supposedly The R-73 ESIGNATION NATO AA-11 Archer is better than the AIM-9 because the R-73 has a system that can make the difference between a flare and a nozzle here the explanation of an already old program aces future military combat experts of the United States give the eye no explanation to say they are Russians.

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Pöri

Pöri

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None of us know the real effectiveness of 27P.

In reality, it is affected by many factors and features of radars and ECM, which are not simulated in DCS.

 

 

The first news about passive radar homing versions of their AAMs that could home down the pencil beam of a enemies fighter radar... for instance for a Sparrow to have any chance of a kill then the launch aircraft (say F-15) needs a lock on the target before launch and all the flight time of the missile to impact... an R-27EP could use its much greater launch range than any model Sparrow, and also much higher average flight speed to hit the F-15 before the Sparrow hits its target... and do it totally passively. The first news about such a missile was revealed well after it was in operational service (ie 20 years after).

 

 

The R-27 missile, produced by Ukrainian firm Artem, comes in infrared-homing (R-27T), semi-active-radar-homing (R-27R), and active-radar-homing (R-27AE) versions.

Russian firms still supply some components for R-27 missile.The R-27R has a range of 50-60 kilometers while R-27EM, which is likely to be used on MiG-29K, is a naval variant with a range of up to 170 kilometers under optimal conditions.The R-27Ps seeker head is interchangeable with the R-77s.

 

 

According to the PLAF :

The missile is guided to the target by a combination of different methods to provide reliable

target lock-on at long ranges from the carrier aircraft. Initially the missile is guided by

inertial guidance, with radio midcourse correction command. In its final stage of flight,

the missile switches to semi-active radar-homing mode, or active infrared-homing mode depending

on the type of the seeker. The missile can be guided along special trajectories to create

favourable conditions for homing head and proximity fuse operation. It is also capable of going

around a plume of passive jamming, of being moved out of the main lobe of the platform's radar,

and approaching a low-flying target from above at a given angle.

The R-27EP (AA-10 Alamo-F) missile has ARM capability and a range of 110 kms. The R27EP uses the 9B 1032 passive anti radiation seeker developed by CKBA. This operates at centimetric wavelengths, and guides the round to the radar of enemy fighter aircraft.

 

The seeker is not different technologically from the Kh-31PD and Kh-38UShKE passive seekers since the developer is the same. The difference is that R-27EP1 has no inertial gyro system. So, the range of the missile and lock on range - both must to be 110 km from frontal hemisphere (for fighter with radar). However, for targets like AWACS it could be different, but is not important since the propulsion is limited by 110 km only.The seeker is a broad band, working in 1.2 - 11 GHz . So, the fighters with AESA radars cannot escape either.

 

 

Say an F-15 detects a Mig-29 and immediately launches a Sparrow missile to intercept it... the Mig pilot can lock on an launch an R-27EP that tracks the radar signal from the F-15 painting the Mig and then launch their missile and turn... the large rocket motor of the EP gives it a higher flight speed than the Sparrow so unless there is a very long delay the R-27 should hit the F-15 before the Sparrow hits the Mig. If the F-15 spots the incoming missile and breaks their radar lock to manouver then both missiles will likely miss.

They were in service in the 1990s yet kept secret all the 1990s.

 

AFAIK they could not be used against ground targets...

 

 

The homing head R-27P1 includes a combination of active radar and inertial correction system. These nodes are activated alternately depending on the phase of flight. The target designation of the missile receives from the radars of the carrier aircraft or ground-based radar. The control system operates according to the “let-forget” principle, ensuring the information secrecy of the attack.

 

 

Su-34 armed with a R-27P1 / R-27EP1 AAM with passive guidance

 

 

EEVcdUqUcAEisOL?format=jpg&name=large

 

 

Details here: http://eng.ktrv.ru/production/military_production/air-to-air_missiles/r-27p1_-_r-27ep1.html


Edited by Pöri
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Pöri

Pöri

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Posted

Interesting info Aim 120D!

 

 

Apparently the main difference between AIM-120D and previous versions is guidance logic and loft profile. Using properly the energy available in the fuel is not easy and the range increase due to launches at high altitudes and speeds is impressive:

aim-1210.png

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Chizh

Chizh

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The first news about passive radar homing versions of their AAMs that could home down the pencil beam of a enemies fighter radar... for instance for a Sparrow to have any chance of a kill then the launch aircraft (say F-15) needs a lock on the target before launch and all the flight time of the missile to impact... an R-27EP could use its much greater launch range than any model Sparrow, and also much higher average flight speed to hit the F-15 before the Sparrow hits its target... and do it totally passively. The first news about such a missile was revealed well after it was in operational service (ie 20 years after).

 

 

The R-27 missile, produced by Ukrainian firm Artem, comes in infrared-homing (R-27T), semi-active-radar-homing (R-27R), and active-radar-homing (R-27AE) versions.

Russian firms still supply some components for R-27 missile.The R-27R has a range of 50-60 kilometers while R-27EM, which is likely to be used on MiG-29K, is a naval variant with a range of up to 170 kilometers under optimal conditions.The R-27Ps seeker head is interchangeable with the R-77s.

 

 

According to the PLAF :

The missile is guided to the target by a combination of different methods to provide reliable

target lock-on at long ranges from the carrier aircraft. Initially the missile is guided by

inertial guidance, with radio midcourse correction command. In its final stage of flight,

the missile switches to semi-active radar-homing mode, or active infrared-homing mode depending

on the type of the seeker. The missile can be guided along special trajectories to create

favourable conditions for homing head and proximity fuse operation. It is also capable of going

around a plume of passive jamming, of being moved out of the main lobe of the platform's radar,

and approaching a low-flying target from above at a given angle.

The R-27EP (AA-10 Alamo-F) missile has ARM capability and a range of 110 kms. The R27EP uses the 9B 1032 passive anti radiation seeker developed by CKBA. This operates at centimetric wavelengths, and guides the round to the radar of enemy fighter aircraft.

 

The seeker is not different technologically from the Kh-31PD and Kh-38UShKE passive seekers since the developer is the same. The difference is that R-27EP1 has no inertial gyro system. So, the range of the missile and lock on range - both must to be 110 km from frontal hemisphere (for fighter with radar). However, for targets like AWACS it could be different, but is not important since the propulsion is limited by 110 km only.The seeker is a broad band, working in 1.2 - 11 GHz . So, the fighters with AESA radars cannot escape either.

 

 

Say an F-15 detects a Mig-29 and immediately launches a Sparrow missile to intercept it... the Mig pilot can lock on an launch an R-27EP that tracks the radar signal from the F-15 painting the Mig and then launch their missile and turn... the large rocket motor of the EP gives it a higher flight speed than the Sparrow so unless there is a very long delay the R-27 should hit the F-15 before the Sparrow hits the Mig. If the F-15 spots the incoming missile and breaks their radar lock to manouver then both missiles will likely miss.

They were in service in the 1990s yet kept secret all the 1990s.

 

AFAIK they could not be used against ground targets...

 

 

The homing head R-27P1 includes a combination of active radar and inertial correction system. These nodes are activated alternately depending on the phase of flight. The target designation of the missile receives from the radars of the carrier aircraft or ground-based radar. The control system operates according to the “let-forget” principle, ensuring the information secrecy of the attack.

 

 

Su-34 armed with a R-27P1 / R-27EP1 AAM with passive guidance

 

Mostly myths and speculations


Edited by Chizh

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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Chizh

Chizh

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Interesting info Aim 120D!

What is source?

Link?

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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Glimmer

Glimmer

Posted
Posted

The R-27 missile, produced by Ukrainian firm Artem, comes in infrared-homing (R-27T), semi-active-radar-homing (R-27R), and active-radar-homing (R-27AE) versions.

Russian firms still supply some components for R-27 missile.The R-27R has a range of 50-60 kilometers while R-27EM, which is likely to be used on MiG-29K, is a naval variant with a range of up to 170 kilometers under optimal conditions.The R-27Ps seeker head is interchangeable with the R-77s.

 

 

According to the PLAF :

The missile is guided to the target by a combination of different methods to provide reliable

target lock-on at long ranges from the carrier aircraft. Initially the missile is guided by

inertial guidance, with radio midcourse correction command. In its final stage of flight,

the missile switches to semi-active radar-homing mode, or active infrared-homing mode depending

on the type of the seeker. The missile can be guided along special trajectories to create

favourable conditions for homing head and proximity fuse operation. It is also capable of going

around a plume of passive jamming, of being moved out of the main lobe of the platform's radar,

and approaching a low-flying target from above at a given angle.

The R-27EP (AA-10 Alamo-F) missile has ARM capability and a range of 110 kms. The R27EP uses the 9B 1032 passive anti radiation seeker developed by CKBA. This operates at centimetric wavelengths, and guides the round to the radar of enemy fighter aircraft.

 

The seeker is not different technologically from the Kh-31PD and Kh-38UShKE passive seekers since the developer is the same. The difference is that R-27EP1 has no inertial gyro system. So, the range of the missile and lock on range - both must to be 110 km from frontal hemisphere (for fighter with radar). However, for targets like AWACS it could be different, but is not important since the propulsion is limited by 110 km only.The seeker is a broad band, working in 1.2 - 11 GHz . So, the fighters with AESA radars cannot escape either.

 

Why do you post that without references to original? Who is that man? :)

https://www.russiadefence.net/t5808p100-russian-air-to-air-missiles

 

Су-27 Flanker | Су-30 Flanker-C | Су-33 Flanker-D | Су-34 Fullback | Су-24 Fencer | МиГ-29 Fulcrum | F-14A/B/D Tomcat | F/A-18C/D Hornet | F/A-18E/F Super Hornet | F-16C Fighting Falcon | F-15C Eagle | Eurofighter Typhoon | Tornado IDS | JAS-39 Gripen | AJ/JA(S)-37 Viggen | Rafale | M-2000 Mirage | Mirage F1

Ka-52 Hokum | Mi-28N Havoc | Mi-35M Hind | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | AH-1W SuperCobra

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Pöri

Pöri

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Posted (edited)
Why do you post that without references to original? Who is that man? :)

https://www.russiadefence.net/t5808p100-russian-air-to-air-missiles

 

 

I love flanker and wanted to help the developers. You could do it like Flanker without simulating a lot of secrets. Datalink would work too I just don’t want a $ 15 fighter to be better than $ 60- $ 80! I'm sad!

 

You could also do an active radar head R27, R 27EM shouldn't have been taken out of the game, no one wanted to. The game would be much more playable. Everyone knows there won’t be a modern Flanker in the game. Whether you make a clickable cabin for your current MiG 29 or Su 27 will have the same bad missiles on it. It’s hard for developers to care about or hate Flanker lovers, we have a one-sided disadvantage online servers!

 

 

 

Sorry bad english!


Edited by Pöri
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Glimmer

Glimmer

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Posted (edited)
I love flanker and wanted to help the developers. You could do it like Flanker without simulating a lot of secrets. Datalink would work too I just don’t want a $ 15 fighter to be better than $ 60- $ 80! I'm sad!

 

Sorry bad english!

 

Fighter-to-Fighter datalink is not represented in multiplayer for Su-27 / 33, it's true, but I guess it's not because someone cut that specially, I guess it happened by technical issues in time when FC3 was released. in the same time current in-game datalink system which is represented at F-16 / F/A-18 / JF-17 is different, new system and I guess because Su-27 / 33 is finished mostly, they would needed to rewrite that fully so I guess we will not see changes for them without major updates... which is not planned as we know now.. Also it's sad for me, I love this aircraft. :(

 

You could also do an active radar head R27, R 27EM shouldn't have been taken out of the game, no one wanted to. The game would be much more playable. Everyone knows there won’t be a modern Flanker in the game. Whether you make a clickable cabin for your current MiG 29 or Su 27 will have the same bad missiles on it. It’s hard for developers to care about or hate Flanker lovers, we have a one-sided disadvantage online servers!

 

R-27 EM / AE was not exists, it's bad way. You are also talking about R-27P, which was not presented in RuAF, as we know from former Su-35 (and other Flankers) / MiG-29 pilots whose served in different periods.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4497686&postcount=4792

Лично меня нет, я ее никогда и не видел.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4498947&postcount=232

В живую не видел и не уверен что она вообще где нибудь была в войсках. Информация было по ней только в нашей книжке боевого применения самолета.

 

To be honest this year we got the info from MaxMPower, that tactic mode (so if we started talking about datalink) in display is not working on classic Su-27 (just was not released) as well, so if setting aircraft to historical state in FC3 conditions -> need to cut that also... will be only HUD dublicate :( So... situation around this aircraft become more and more sad...


Edited by Glimmer
 

Су-27 Flanker | Су-30 Flanker-C | Су-33 Flanker-D | Су-34 Fullback | Су-24 Fencer | МиГ-29 Fulcrum | F-14A/B/D Tomcat | F/A-18C/D Hornet | F/A-18E/F Super Hornet | F-16C Fighting Falcon | F-15C Eagle | Eurofighter Typhoon | Tornado IDS | JAS-39 Gripen | AJ/JA(S)-37 Viggen | Rafale | M-2000 Mirage | Mirage F1

Ka-52 Hokum | Mi-28N Havoc | Mi-35M Hind | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | AH-1W SuperCobra

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Pöri

Pöri

Posted
Posted
Fighter-to-Fighter datalink is not represented in multiplayer for Su-27 / 33, it's true, but I guess it's not because someone cut that specially, I guess it happened by technical issues in time when FC3 was released. in the same time current in-game datalink system which is represented at F-16 / F/A-18 / JF-17 is different, new system and I guess because Su-27 / 33 is finished mostly, they would needed to rewrite that fully so I guess we will not see changes for them without major updates... which is not planned as we know now.. Also it's sad for me, I love this aircraft. :(

 

 

 

R-27 EM / AE was not exists, it's bad way. You are also talking about R-27P, which was not presented in RuAF, as we know from former Su-35 (and other Flankers) / MiG-29 pilots whose served in different periods.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4497686&postcount=4792

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4498947&postcount=232

 

 

e3827ae76784f68d7023ce1870bfa462_w200.gif

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