Constantly losing radar locks, unable to do any BVR because of this

Hi folks,

with the sale going on, i finally decided to go for the Hornet. Performance wise a very sweet plane and with its FBW system very need to handle. Just like the M2000C which was my 1st jet ever, a nice and welcome difference to my usually WW2 warbird stuff.

I spent my time setting up controls to my comfort and getting used to the plane, its start-up, VFR TO & L/D on field and after about an hour was ready to go for A2A training. I worked through Chucks Guide, watched some tutorials before i hoped into an A2A training mission i build for the M2000C. Goal was to try out some normal 120C BVR shots both in TWS and STT mode, than go further testing cranking shots and finally some launches against two targets.

But to my surprise i ran into troubles with keeping a radar lock at all. After about two additional hours i gave up, cause i couldn't achieve any of the desired training goals.

I went back to the guides and tutorials but couldnt find a solution to what i experienced, so i ask here for some help.

Conditions of the training mission:

I can spawn in A2A targets (Mig29A&S, SU27, F16s, F18s) using the F10 menu. The engagment starts over the water at ~80-90nm, starting altitude for both side ~25k ft, closing speed ~800-900kts TAS. I have an AWACS to support me.

Hostile are highest AI level, tasked to destroy my flight. Launch and radar operations on their side is "randomized" to reflect some variaty. So sometimes they will STT and fire at Rmax, somtimes between Rmax and Rne, sometimes wait for Rne.

What happened:

I spawn a hostile in. I see him on my attack radar screen. I lock him up and get a L&S. Range decreases. At somewhere between 40-25 nm i lose the lock, although bandit is HOT , co-alt or higher,against a clear blue sky and closure rate is ~800-1000kts. After that i get a nice red diamond on my radar screen, but can not reaquire the target. It doesnt matter if i am in RWS trying to get a STT, or if i am in TWS trying to get a L&S primary track.

Somewhere along the road hostile is shooting at me, so i am forced to take evasives. Usually i beat the missiles go hot again, but still reaquiring target is impossible. Still red diamonds, but no lock.

Distances close further, below 10nm. I am forced to use borsight mode to fire the 120c. Even in vertical or wide mode ACM mode it is very hard to get a lock even when hostile is HOT and closure is high.

I tried to reduce bars and azzimuth to have higher scan frequencies, switched between AUTO/MANUAL/BIAS Modes and between HI/INT/ME PRF to see if that makes a difference. NOTHING.

Very frustrating. I am was not able to do a single successful BVR shot.

The only defensive maneuvering the hostiles did while at BVR ranges was probably activating their ECM. Might that be so effective against the F/A-18s radar? Or what am i doing wrong here.

EDIT: DCS Version is the current stable build.

Not sure. Sounds like you've done your homework, so it's hard to tell. Try to keep the TDC cursor on the target. Double check your antenna elevation. Only things I can think of.

I suggest maybe making a track so we can all take a look at what was happening there.

Hmm, you have pretty much already covered all the possible issues that I thought of when I saw this thread, so I'm not sure what's happening there :dunno:

So as hein22 said, we would need to see a track file to figure out what is going on (although I won't be able to take a look at it as I'm using the Open Beta).

Also check the data page of the radar. You can set how long a contact stays on screen between sweeps. I find I need at least 8 and often will even set it to 16

I think I've seen a similar situation in OB a while back. I don't remember which version.

I had a AI JF17 locked in STT, there was no indication of him maneuvering in horizontal or vertical.

He broke lock and disappeared. I could see him on my SA. He was straight and level hauling ass toward me. This was a heaters only exercise so I continued toward victory:D

I haven't seen this issue in recent builds of OB.

Also be aware that if you're in manual mode in TWS the radar will NOT center the elevation on the L&S target. You need to be in AUTO/BIAS for that in TWS. Otherwise, the most likely thing is that the enemy is simply flying outside of the radar scan zone vertically.

I run a virtual Hornet squadron, and this is the biggest problem new & not-so-new-ish pilots in the Bug face with the radar.

Try to delete friendly AWACS to be sure diamond you are looking at is not an AWACS donor symbol.

OK guys. Thanks for the first feedbacks. Today i gonna 1st start with simply playing through the training mission for the 120C, see if i run into the issue their to.

If no, it might be mission specific. If yes, i will see that i get a track recorded.

One question at the current point. How can i verify that hostile is trying to ECM me. I know how it looks like in the M2000C, but how does the Hornets radar give me feedback about his.

OK guys. Thanks for the first feedbacks. Today i gonna 1st start with simply playing through the training mission for the 120C, see if i run into the issue their to.

 

 

If no, it might be mission specific. If yes, i will see that i get a track recorded.

 

 

One question at the current point. How can i verify that hostile is trying to ECM me. I know how it looks like in the M2000C, but how does the Hornets radar give me feedback about his.

Would have to double check, I think jamming contacts remain in the "dug out" area at the top of the radar display.

One question at the current point. How can i verify that hostile is trying to ECM me. I know how it looks like in the M2000C, but how does the Hornets radar give me feedback about his.

No jamming effects implemented for the Hornet yet.

Would have to double check, I think jamming contacts remain in the "dug out" area at the top of the radar display.

No

Also keep in mind that the FCR will not be able to maintain a soft lock if you have the scan too wide or too many bars going.

If I go 40 wide and 6 bar the FCR will drop soft lock but if I go 40 wide and 4 bar then it maintains soft lock.

Also keep in mind that the FCR will not be able to maintain a soft lock if you have the scan too wide or too many bars going.

 

If I go 40 wide and 6 bar the FCR will drop soft lock but if I go 40 wide and 4 bar then it maintains soft lock.

Had the same issue as OP with losing radar lock and after the trial period I came to the conclusion that maybe the history was too short, especially when using 6 bars and 140°.

Another issue was that I couldn't get the laser pod working.

Third issue I solved after shooting two friendlies was how to switch the IFF on.

Two days were simply not enough to get all the stuff working.

Otherwise I like this plane, especially the FM. Feels pretty lightweight. Visual carrier landing without ILS and coming in in a turn worked well even on the very first landing.

Hi folks,

thanks again for the feedback. Here a little update.

Did the training mission on 120B/C, left everything there as it came and was able to get all bandits using BVR. Nevertheless on the first guy there i also twice lost the lock for no apparent reasons. Radar mode the mission uses is RWS+LTWS and STT to shoot.

After that i modded my training mission. AWACS removed and two dummy flights added to have non hostile targets. I spawned in and than went through all radar modes seperately to see.

RWS without LTWS. I finally was able to crank/F-Pole a hostile engaging me using an STT lock. It was lost once around 45nm, but than from ~38nm i could hold the lock while approaching with hostile 25° of to the left, after he shot crank until hostile was 60° off to the right, than turn back into him, launch 120C and bug out.

Went on to try the same with RWS+LTWS. Here i ran into the same issues as before. Which i do not really understand, cause from my understanding LTWS only displays additional info and gives a soft target lock option. But once going to STT it should be no different than RWS.

Than played around with TWS on the non hostiles. This was inconclusive. On the 2 non hostile flights i could suprisingly well keep tracks, L&S and DT2. Radar easily refreshed tracks even of the flight at flanking/cold aspect. I tried some basic multitarget launches. Worked....BUT...the same did not work later on. I did not have so much time, but from some brief testing it may be that the issue is cause by the radar not properly "reseting" after it lost a L&S/DT2 and not properly getting out of EXP/RAID mode. I know a similar issue on the M2000C where after a lost lock or unsuccesful lock attempt the radar dish gets "stuck" and one has to manually reset it by unlocking so it goes on to sweep. So i reseted the F/A-18s radar after each lost lock and/or use of EXP/RAID it seemed to improve reaquiring.

Will see if i can reproduce that regularly for a solid track.

Another update after first MP session.

Let me first say...HOLLY F$CK$UNG SH$T does the Hornet perform in CAP/A2A compared to the Mirage in MP. I used it more or less in a similar fashion to the Mirage with the added benefit of FOX3 deployement greatly reducing my exposure to threats and lord am i impressed by the potential an power. I just miss my IR warning system i am so used to from the Mirage and so a manpack stinger got me in the end. ;)

After MP i have to admit its probably a DAU issue. TWS mode in hornet seems just not really suited to my kind of A2A approach and so maybe i just get lost in all the things to do, to keep a good TWS picture. Some functions just seem to be counter intuitive in functionality.

The one remaining issue i can not attribute to myself is why TWS with AUTO mode enabled seems to be so weak at tracking the L&S, even with just 40° azz and 4 or less bars. Had player two ship approaching me, designated L&S and DT2 and both where close together horizontaly and verticaly. But radar was not able to track them good, even though they didn't take eavasive actions. Wanted to set up a nice two 120C launch, but had to aboard and reattack using STT on both seperately.

Please, post a track or video so we can see and help you better.

Without further knowledge i would say that this could be coming from poor radar scan management in altitude. So basically when you start the engament far away the bandits are well inside the radar cone vertically, but as they come closer they could slip out of your "cone".

To discard this, make sure the TDC are always on top of the bandits or close, so that the numbers at the top and bottom of the TDC gives you the real altitude that your radar cone is scanning at that given distance. Just my two cents.

It could be a very recent bug also but i have not found any problem with the hornet radar so far. Try also a repair just in case.

Please, post a track or video so we can see and help you better.

 

Without further knowledge i would say that this could be coming from poor radar scan management in altitude. So basically when you start the engament far away the bandits are well inside the radar cone vertically, but as they come closer they could slip out of your "cone".

 

To discard this, make sure the TDC are always on top of the bandits or close, so that the numbers at the top and bottom of the TDC gives you the real altitude that your radar cone is scanning at that given distance. Just my two cents.

I had exactly the same thoughts.

It could be a very recent bug also but i have not found any problem with the hornet radar so far. Try also a repair just in case.

Nope, he plays on the latest stable build, which is not very recent itself.

There is a bug reported a lot of time ago (but not acknowledged by ED) about STT. IRL STT mode chooses the best PRF for the given situation (aspect, range, etc), but in DCS STT gets stuck at whatever PRF was active at the moment of commanding STT. So if you were in Interleaved mode and the PRF was HI at the moment you command STT but the target is cold and far then you'll lose lock. Maybe this helps, maybe not, hope it does. Thanks.

To discard this, make sure the TDC are always on top of the bandits or close, so that the numbers at the top and bottom of the TDC gives you the real altitude that your radar cone is scanning at that given distance. Just my two cents.

I admit that in TWS using BIAS or MAN its most likely a user problem on my side atm. But shouldn't the Hornet keep the cone aligned with the L&S when i use AUTO in TWS? Similar to an STT lock?

Another thing. I ran into this video

How is the guy able to reaquire the STT lock so quickly after he lost it at 7:25?

I do not see the TDC moving at all, almost looks like an autoreaquire.

Similar situation at 9:55 TDC stays where it is, but a lock.

Or will sensor select right work in those situations, cause there is only one contact on the scope?

Final update. I guess i found the issue. Mostly when using TWS i stayed in INT PRF Modus. But it seems that MED at all currently has only disadvantages and no real advantages. So L&S is lost when at greater distances a MED bar hits it. Once i switched to only HI i could crank and F-pole relatively easy in TWS using 40°/4 BAR and AUTO mode.

STT also seem way more stable just using HI. Even when target goes beaming or cold.

..I went back to the guides and tutorials but couldnt find a solution to what i experienced, so i ask here for some help.

Build your own simple little mission in 5 minutes in the editor, just your Hornet against one enemy plane (eg a fat slow transport like the AN-30) then you'll have all the time in the world to test everything out without any clutter.

I mission-build all the time to try out different weapon systems etc as I find it's by far the best way to learn.

PS- and of course you'll know for certain your own missions are bang up to date, whereas older stock missions (and guides and tutorials) might have been created with earlier outdated Hornet versions.

It works. MDI Pushbutton 13 switches the TWS mode to Auto, which will show BIAS at random and the Amraam lock stays on throughout. I had the same issue. Thanks guys.