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An old noob seeking advice.


markamerica

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Good evening! (Or whatever greeting may be appropriate for whatever time of day it may be where you are.)

 

 

I have some questions, and I'm going to preface them by boring you with some information that may or may not help you formulate your answers if you've managed to avoid nodding off and still wish to respond.

 

 

I haven't bought a new flight sim since Jetfighter II. Yeah, it's been a while. Life intervened. It's not so much that I lost interest but simply haven't had time. Now I'm old, the nest is empty, the FAA has ruined R/C flying, and I'm bored to tears. I recently got my first flat-screen TV, complete with "smart" features(to tell the truth, I was fine with the ol' RCA 32" CRT, but it was getting long in the tooth.)

 

 

I live way, way out in the country in what you might call an "internet desert." I'm doing well most of the time if I can manage 256Kbps most of the time, streaming video is always buffering, buffering, buffering, so most of the time, forget Netflix, Hulu, and Youtube. That said, due to the kind of job I have, I need to maintain the ability to connect into work, so I have to do what I can. Cell coverage is spotty. Yes, there's a reason I live out here: We have a horse farm. Point is, I'm hoping you'll tell me that this sim doesn't demand a bunch of bandwidth and can be run without relying on a connection to a server somewhere. Also, youtube, trying to see what I could get out of that nifty new TV's "smart" features is how I came across this site: Saw a demo of an F-14 by Heatblur, and an F-18, and the videos were awesome, and it kind of rekindled an old flame, if you know what I mean.

 

 

Anyway, I guess I need to find out more about all of this, but here's where I stand with hardware:

A Dell Precision 7810 wtih dual xeons and a RAID10 SAS array. Video is a pair of nvidia Quadra 4000 series, and audio is a SB Audigy. Still running Windows 7 though contemplating Windows 10. Skipped 8 because I hated it, and truthfully, putting off 10 because I don't like it much more. I wish MS would stop trying to "improve" their O/S' in terms of look/feel. Frankly, I've been fine with the standard desktop since NT 3.51. But I digress... Whatever's going to be necessary, I suppose I'll wind up doing. I did read that all those cores I've got in this box will be idling with this sim since it currently only uses a single thread, right? I also read something is coming that will change that?

 

 

Anyway, let me know about hardware changes I may need to undertake. Also, in the old days, I had a setup made by an outfit called "Thrustmaster" that included a hotas setup and a pair of rudder pedals, all run through a game port on the SB card, but I assume all of that is long gone, and come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a gameport on an audio card in some time. Probably all USB now, right? Any suggestions/recommendations on controls?

 

 

Getting started, what do I need to buy, software-wise?

 

 

 

Also, I noticed something reading through some posts about something called "Steam." Then I noticed something about "steam compatibility" whatever that means. I don't expect anybody to write a book, but a quick link or two to some authoritative, concise info would be nice.

 

 

 

So here's where I'd like to go:

I like the looks of the Heatblur F-14 sim and this F-18 Hornet. I figure on some learning curve, but as it turns out, it may be the last thing I ever learn, so I might as well enjoy it until death do us part. I learn things well enough, but beware: I'm not up on all the latest sim/gaming terminology. The only gaming console I ever owned allowed me to play Space Invaders. My first computer was a TRS-80 MarkIII, 16K of ram, saved and loaded code via a serial connection to a cassette tape player. Nowadays, the tech is a little higher-speed/capacity but at its root is still the SOS.

 

 

The only sim/gaming software I've used in the last 25 years is RealFlight(to keep the R/C skills up in the non-flying periods) and LTspice to simulate amplifier circuits for some old-school audio gear I play with and enjoy.

 

 

 

Anyway, nice to make your acquaintances, hope I won't be a pest, and maybe I'll have something to contribute eventually.

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mark

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They don't sell media? Wow. That's just... I don't think I have the words. I had a younger fellow who worked for me, was a gamer, I don't remember what console thing he specified, but he mentioned one(I think made by Microsoft?) that required an internet connection. Let me ask this: Assuming I could get the downloads, is there any in-sim connectivity requirement? Thanks!

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Due to your slow internet, and old computer i will not recommend DCS flight simulator for you for many reasons, one is the download size, the other is your old computer.

 

I highly recommend that you on steam buy "falcon 4" its an old flight sim

BUT fans have kept it alive with many mods that make it a very good flight sim with much better graphics than when the game was released.

( example in the webstore on steam you will see the flightsim video its old and do not look so good, but if you use a mod you can make the graphics much better.. )

 

And it only cost like 9,99usd..

Be aware that you will have to watch some tutorials to know how to operate the plane ( planes yes you can fly in different planes ).

 

The game is not so big and do not take so long to download.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/429530/Falcon_40/

 

The mod that you need for it to look pretty. ( its free ) a video of BMS

 

 

 

Download the free mod here.

http://veterans-gaming.com/index.php?/files/file/22-falcon-bms-433-wupdates-1-2-3-4-5/

 

OR the official forum https://www.bmsforum.org/ ( you need account to download ) on the forum you can also download more maps such as iran, balkan

 

 

 

If you want a civilian flight sim i recommend

FSX flight simualtor that is on steam.. its old but still very good and there are many free planes you can download on the net.

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Thanks, Maybe I should ask it this way: What is the minimum required bandwidth to successfully run the sim?

 

 

The game require very little bandwith data to be send..

when you start the game is just check if you have a key, and then it unlock.

( but you will not be able to fly online with your internet connection i think ).

 

By the way DCS world come with 2 free planes you can fly.

The su25 and the P51 plane.

 

Then you can see if your computer can run the game before you example buy another plane... ( personaly i recommend the f18c since it can do everything )

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It’s correct that you only need the connection to fly with your local missions but having a slow download speed will frustrate you to the maximum! If you could take your computer to a site with a higher bandwidth and update there whenever needed you could be fine with a low speed local connection. But you will not be able to play online. To have a good online experience you need 4mbit down and 2mbit up.

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Delevero,

 

 

Thanks, my computer isn't so old. A couple of years. (Sorry, I might have cause the confusion with my reference to the old TRS-80) The computer I'm on at the moment is a Dell Precision 7810. I think it's maybe three years old. I actually had Falcon 3.0 back in the day.

 

 

 

At present, I don't have a joystick. What would you recommend if I were going to try to go down the DCS path? I have somebody in my vicinity who has plenty of bandwidth who won't mind me downloading things at his place. When I need an .iso for say linux, or similar large files, he's permitted it in the past.

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Hijack,

 

 

Thanks, yes, as I mentioned to Delevero, I can probably have a friend download patches and toss them on a thumb drive for me or whatever. Yeah, I'm a long way from 4down/2up. When things are running really clean, I can do about 1/8th of that.

 

 

Sadly, that's just the way things are when you get very far out of the big corridors in rural Texas. I have about 40 acres and there are some spots on the place where you won't ever get a cell signal, and a couple spots where you might even get 2/5 bars if you hold your tongue in just the right position while standing on one leg. Sadly, none of those spots are in/near the house. As a backup plan for work, I have an aircard that if I hook antennae to both external ports, I can get 2 solid bars some times. But that's a pain, frustrating, and definitely not consistent enough to be useful.

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HiJack, you're saying that I can't just download a file, but have to run some installer from the Internet? That would be fine if I was doing this on a laptop, but that Precision 7810 isn't exactly portable. Why is it assumed everybody has that kind of bandwidth? Awfully tough to exclude 95% of the world's population from one's customer base. Thanks!

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Most of DCS players have fast internet. You may get someone that has DCS in your area to copy the main application folder on to 150GB drive ang give it to you but I’m sure you will be very unhappy with that situation. You asked for info and you have received. Sorry.

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Mark,

Since you don't have cable you will have to get something like Hughes Net or some other satellite internet service. The only way to get the software from ED ( The company that makes this software) is download from them.

 

Come to think about it, I believe some guys may be using DSL phone line. But it is unbearably slow. Someone who uses DSL can way-in on this.

 

Your computer will not be able to run this software without a few changes. You will need a Nvidia 1070 or equivalent or better video card. You also did not mention how much memory you have. You will need 32gb, gigabytes...not megabytes. Although SAS drives are fast, they are not fast enough. You will need a 250gb solid state drive for the operating system. Then you will need a 500gb solid state drive (called SSD) for the programs. Also I do not think your SAS controller will run solid state drives. Get the fastest SATA solid state drives. Do not get the M-2 type as your system does not have the interfaces for that type.

 

Get all the software from E-Shop on the DCS website. Do not purchase from Steam.

You will need Windows 10 Pro. You will need DCS World...which is free on DCS which also includes 2 free aircraft and one free map. Caucus area map.

 

The F-18 is at this point and time NOT ready. It is in a state of what is considered Alpha or numerous bugs and missing features. The version you purchase now is a pre-released type and is only offered if you want to help in the bug hunt.

 

The F-14 is available to purchase now but you wont be able to actually get it until ? Its been forecast in several more weeks. It is suppose to be a finished product when released. Pre purchased now saves 10.00.

 

I know that the videos show what seems like finished products but they are not at this point.

 

Some of the titles are finished. Some are somewhat finished but still need attention by the developers.

 

There is an option which is called Flaming Cliffs 3 which contains 6 finished modules and are much easier to learn. The other titles are referred to as Study Sims. They are full-blown simulators that try to be as close as possible to the real thing, including all systems etc..

 

Also there is reported to be an additional couple of aircraft, again FC3 (Flaming Cilffs 3) type and not the Study Sim type to be added to the FC3 title module.

 

You will also need a hotas controller...with pedals. Also depending on the video card you choose, will determine the display you will want.

 

The study sim modules are very intensive and quite a learning curve. The FC-3 type is much easier to learn and I am sure you will enjoy them immensely. If you are into helicopters, the black shark is finished and fun and also not too difficult to learn....course its a helicopter...hard to fly at first....losts of practice. And refueling with the jets is also a learning curve. Landing on a carrier is also a challenge.

 

There are numerous acronyms that will be confusing. Some of the modules can be flown but you should use the Stable Version. There are two platforms you can download. These are the base program and all the modules synchronize with it. The base program is as mentioned in two forms. One is called Stable...that you will want. The other is called Beta and is the one that is still being worked on but you can purchase those titles but they are

not finished and the idea is to help track bugs. You should be proficient in software development to a degree and be able to submit reports as you find them while operating the Beta versions.

 

To add more to this....this community is quite helpful but some of the advice sometimes should be considered before committing.

 

Some of the hardware I mentioned should be thought over. It really takes a fast computer to run this. It would be quite expensive to just start out. I would think with all the hardware and software needed you will be looking at around 2000.00 for a medium system that will run this. If you look at the bottom of many of the posts here, the guys usually list their system specifications.

 

Many here have invested 4-8 thousand bucks. But others have enjoyed this without all the bells and whistles and super-computers. You can look at the recommended specifics.

 

By the way you do have a super-type-computer. Unfortunately it is a workstation type and does not run gaming software. It is for development and cad work which it is very capable of doing. The video cards you have are also only for that type work and they do very poorly at gaming. Again they are made for workstation tasks not gaming.

 

Hope this helps.

Another ole timer. Lazduc

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Most of DCS players have fast internet. You may get someone that has DCS in your area to copy the main application folder on to 150GB drive ang give it to you but I’m sure you will be very unhappy with that situation. You asked for info and you have received. Sorry.

 

As HiJack has pointed out, this is the way for you to do it.

 

Have someone install DCS completely (Not just download the installer). Copy this whole install to a disk drive and send it to you.

 

You do not need to "install DCS" and can copy and paste DCS to the C drive, then locate the launch links in the bin folder and it will run.

 

The computer you have is an old cad work station, not sure how it will go for these new sims.

 

You also need to make sure you are running window 7 (64bit) NOT 32

 

Go to --> control panel / system

 

See --> System type

 

system.png

 

 

Minimum system requirements (LOW graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Intel Core i3 at 2.8 GHz or AMD FX; RAM: 8 GB (16 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 60 GB; Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 / AMD R9 280X or better; requires internet activation.

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/stable/

 

Everything is now online and through companies like steam, even more so in this small niche, as the cost to have CD and books etc sitting on shelves is expensive to do.

 

.


Edited by David OC

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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Thrustmaster is still around, and for an entry level setup I'd look into the T-16000M. This is a joystick with a small slider for throttle control.

 

If you find a renewed passion in the hobby, you can expand that with the TWCS throttle system (which very closely mimics an F/A-18C throttle quadrant) and rudder pedals.

 

When/if you're ready to go full crazy, there are a number of high end controllers available that more closely replicate the various airframes you can find in DCS.

 

Just to reaffirm, an internet connection is required to "phone home" and check copy protection every few days, but beyond that you aren't required to be online to play single player content. You might consider taking your PC into work one day and running the download during a shift, assuming your work internet is faster. A portable drive might also be an option.

 

Hardware-wise, it's hard to say whether your performance will be satisfactory...the video cards you're running are more geared towards production than gaming, and the processor more geared towards server applications. As others have mentioned, the base "DCS World" product is free and includes the Su-25T and TF-51D so you can download it and determine if your PC is able to run it effectively.

 

With regards to Steam: Steam is a third-party software distribution and social service. There is a version of DCS World that can be purchased through the Steam application, but the Steam version and the version sold on the digitalcombatsimulator.com website are not cross-compatible. The publisher's version tends to receive slightly earlier access to patches and support so that's the version I'd recommend going with.

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Lazduc,

 

Thanks, a lot to consider there. Yes, my computer does a lot of dev work and so on. I find these workstations generally more reliable because they're not so bleeding edge, but I concede the video is not really aimed at gaming. I wonder if I switch out video cards, comfortable with Nvidia, does anybody have an Nvidia suggestion? I'll consider all you've provided here.

 

David OC, is a three year old computer really "old"? Anyway, yes, it's 64-bit, and your install/copy process sounds reasonable. I just wish they'd let you download a .zip or similar.

 

I sure wish DCS used multiple cores.

 

Let me see what I can figure out.

 

feefifofum,

 

I am very interested in what sort of high end controllers are out there, only because I feel that "full crazy" coming on. Feel free to tell me about your favorites. Being so long-removed from flight sims, I imagine there has to be some pretty terrific controllers out there by now.

 

I think if I can work it out, I'd like to try out the base sim (DCS World) and see if I can work out the process for patching and etc. Like I said, given bandwidth constraints, it's going to be a bit painful.

 

Oh, that's a question: Are patches cumulative? So let's say it's been a while since I patched... Now I go patch... Am I going to have to get all of the intervening patches, or just the latest?

 

Thanks all!

 

Mark

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Welcome back to sims Mark,

 

I just wanted to throw in my two cents, since I commiserate with your position. My folks still ranch in a situation that sounds quite similar to yours (wonderful place to live, just not broadband friendly), and so when I consider building a house there at some point I have to "wargame" how to feed my sim habit haha.

 

The point I wanted to make is I wouldn't necessarily sweat the patches too much -- IF you would be willing to forgo the F18/F14/other early access airframes for a bit. At current state, the patches roll out approximately every two weeks (once a week for beta/once a week for stable), but they are only really critical IF you want the new features of the new airframes OR you need to stay current so you can play multiplayer. If you went with a well established airframe like the A10C and never needed to play online, as long as your DCS is able to "phone home" as feefifofum mentioned to affirm your copy protection, you will be able to play. And just learning the A10C alone and playing its excellent single player content could keep anyone busy for years and years.

 

Like others have pointed out, your system might need some updating, but as long as you are able to get the initial install sorted out, don't care about multiplayer, and are willing to fly an aircraft that is already complete, I wouldn't worry about your internet connection so much.

 

Also, since satellite internet was brought up, as someone who has experienced it I would advise caution. While the downstream bandwidth can be decent, some providers place fairly significant data caps on your downloads. Furthermore, even with strong upstream and downstream performance, the latency is usually unacceptable for gaming. I have used Speedtest at many user's homes and usually latency is around 1000ms, but of course some people might have had better or worse performance.

 

Good luck!

Multiplayer as Variable

 

Asus Z97-A - I7 4790K - 32 GB HyperX - EVGA GTX 1080 Ti - Corsair 750i PSU

 

TM Warthog HOTAS - TM Cougar MFDs - CH Pedals - TrackIR 5 - Samsung RU8000 55”

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A single patch will include all required updates; if you skip a few updates you won't need to download every patch you've missed. :thumbup:

 

With respect to video cards, the NVidia 10 series cards will be seeing a dramatic price drop in the near future as the 20 series cards are released and unless you're planning on flying in ultra-high resolution VR should offer more than enough horsepower to run the sim adequately. Like anything else in PC world, more is technically better, but I believe you start to see a diminishing return in performance vs. money spent with anything faster than a standard GeForce 1080. (around $260 used/$4-500 new vs $4-500 used/$7-800 new for a 1080Ti with slightly more RAM) If money is no object, the new 2080Ti series will run in the neighborhood of $1K and outperform anything else on the market for at least two months until the 3080Ti is announced. ;) (

)

 

As for HOTAS systems, also by Thrustmaster the HOTAS Warthog is an exact replica of the A-10C/F-16C stick and A-10C throttle quadrant and has more than enough buttons and switches to cover your bases on pretty much any flight sim out there. Thrustmaster is also planning to sell a stick you can swap in that is modeled after the F/A-18's (which in turn is very similar to the Harrier/F-15 stick) at some point in the near future. It's about $450 for the stick and throttle set. There are also some 3rd party companies that make extensions to give the stick a little more throw, which I'd highly recommend. I have a 120cm extension attached to my own Warthog stick that gives a throw more in line with what you'd find on a real jet, which allows for much finer control.

 

For high-end rudders with toe brakes, you have Thrustmaster's new TPR at $500, the Slaw device at a similar price point, and the MFG Crosswinds at ~$320 depending on current currency conversion and shipping rates, all of which are of exceptional quality. For around $250 Saitek has some offerings, including a set of combat pedals modeled after the F-16, though I've found some of the parts to be of dubious quality (almost every single person I know has had a failure of the potentiometer in the toe brake within a couple of years.)

 

If you're more interested in Russian-style controls, VKB and Virpil have some replica Sukhoi sticks and some throttles more in line with what you typically find on Eastern birds.

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It's always great to see all kind of folks getting interested in this beautiful simulator :thumbup:

 

There's much I could tell you, but I'm short of time right now, so I just want to clearify one thing: You don't need a permanent internet connection to play this game anymore. They implemented an offline mode a few months ago, to make it easier for folks that don't have a permanent reliable internet connection.

See here for more info on that: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207670

 

Having said that, you will still need to download the sim itself (which is huge) and there will be updates every 1-2 weeks, which are usally some GBs big as well. You can not download them somewhere else seperately and then bring them to your computer, because you have to download them through the game launcher. The updates are not enforced though, so you can just ignore them and keep playing on older versions if you want to.


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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It's always great to see all kind of folks getting interested in this beautiful simulator :thumbup:

 

There's much I could tell you, but I'm short of time right now, so I just want to clearify one thing: You don't need a permanent internet connection to play this game anymore. They implemented an offline mode a few months ago, to make it easier for folks that don't have a permanent reliable internet connection.

See here for more info on that: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207670

 

Having said that, you will still need to download the sim itself (which is huge) and there will be updates every 1-2 weeks, which are usally some GBs big as well. You can not download them somewhere else seperately and then bring them to your computer, because you have to download them through the game launcher. The updates are not enforced though, so you can just ignore them and keep playing on older versions if you want to.

 

 

I have poor expensive Internet Service, with a limited monthly usage of only 50 gig. Two months ago, I downloaded DCS which took around 10 gig. I run the software offline. For a single player, it works great. I go online once a week for any patches or upgrades. Currently, it is not effecting any of my monthly usage allowance. :thumbup:

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Lazduc,

 

With respect to Hughes, I have to avoid that. It doesn't work very well (or at all) with the VPN client I need for work.

 

Tom_19d,

 

Where the patches are concerned: good. I won't sweat them so much. I'm not all that worried about multiplayer. I'd have to spend some time getting up to speed on all of the controls and learning the sim before I burdened other people with my presence in battle...LOL

 

What you mention about satellite solutions is duly noted. With respect to what I mentioned to Lazduc, there are some VPNs (many, in fact) that won't work over the asymmetrical connection hughes employs. If it's no good for work, I can't bother with it. Somebody told me today about a local company that has a wireless service that might work. I'm investigating. I have my doubts about whether they would offer a 4MbpsDown/2MbpsUp connection speed though. Have made an inquiry. I expect high cost for not much improvement.

 

feefifofum,

 

Perfect! I'm glad to know that. I like the looks of the HOTAS Warthog. Anybody using Saitek instrument panels and so on?

 

Let me know about those third-party vendors who are selling extensions for the HOTAS Warthog.

 

I looked at the MFG Crosswinds pedals, and they look beefy, which is good. Not sure I like the look of the TPR... But maybe I need to look more closely.

 

Will definitely follow your advice on the graphics cards.

 

Tell me about VR. That's a thing that effectively didn't exist last time I plugged a joystick into a PC. What's popular amongst DCS folk? I guess my thinking would be simple to install, easy to use for a noob, durable for a clod like me, and reliable. Would rather spend a bit more and have fewer problems.

 

 

QuiGon,

 

Thanks, I've been reading at the link you provided. Still seems like I'm either going to need to live with pain, or I'm going to need to find a much better ISP option.

 

Skunk_Cabbage,

 

Thank you! I am hunting around. It's the one thing that sucks living out in the country. People 15 miles from me have vastly better internet options... Then again, they can't walk out on their back porch nekid without generating 9-1-1 calls...LOL Not that I'm into that sort of thing...

 

Thanks all!

 

Mark

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The Saitek panels require a bit of finagling and some 3rd party software to get up and running, but the Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs are a great choice if you plan on flying the Harrier, Hornet, or Warthog. You can even export the in-game displays to a second monitor and have fully functional MFCDs.

 

MFG, the same company that sells the Crosswinds, also sells extensions for the warthog stick. There was also a fellow named Sahaj that was doing them for a while but I'm not sure if he is still active.

 

With respect to VR, the immersion and sense of depth and motion is incredible but it's still very difficult to identify targets due to the relatively low resolution of the displays. I'd personally recommend waiting for the next generation of the tech.

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