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Old 04-21-2019, 07:17 AM   #201
RIVER
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After a long and demanding training session last night I can confirm there are Tomcat pilots out there who can beat the Mirage back to back. They sweat and curse but pull it off.

Like you said Humm, disciplined turning is key and it's a handful in the Cat. Looks like we are going to have a good time ;-)
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:47 AM   #202
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I bought myself a mirage at a discount and decided to measure the candle from the ground compared to the F-15.
1) Mirage is completely empty with 1 kg of fuel and weight is 7601 kg. Power capacity ~ 1.276.
2) F-15c weight 16893 kg power supply ~ 1.276.
The fuel is infinite, accelerating to 1430 km / h on the ground and carrying out a candle with an overload of 6g.

That's what happened, the speed (time):
................................. M2000s .... F-15s
1) At a height of 3km: 1013 (12) .... 1058 (12)
2) At a height of 5km: 836 (19) ..... 905 (1
3) At a height of 7km: 700 (26) ..... 743 (25)
4) At a height of 9km: 573 (33) ..... 588 (32)
5) At the height of 11km: 458 (41) ..... 419 (40)
6) At the height of 13km: 341 (49) ..... 228 (51)
7) At an altitude of 14km: 278 (55) ..... 92 (62) 15th all at 14200 m.
At a height of 15km: 209 (61)
9) At a height of 16km: 125 (69)
Mirage calmed down at 16667 meters, total flight time 84 seconds, 15th 69 seconds.

I also conducted a similar test with the F-5E and Mirage, both have a pull-gun ~ 0.87.
They jumped up to 10 km both (well, a mirage 500m has not yet surrendered) - that is, there is no such difference.

Conclusion: Above ~ 8 km, the Mirage engine loses less thrust than other DCS aircraft (switches to rocket fuel).

Sorry for bad english.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:09 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird View Post
Yeah I think most people are just surprised at how quickly the M2000 can do the first couple of turns, and then they get scared and start doing evasive reversals, which is a bad idea against the Mirage as it can slow down and change vectors faster than they can.

Key to winning against the Mirage is to do the first turn very aggressively and then after the second merge pick a side to turn, aim for your corner speed and stay disciplined and keep your turn even if you see the Mirage momentarily gain on you - because after a little bit he will fall behind due to the lower STR.

The thing to understand with the Mirage 2000 is it wasn't designed as a dogfighter.


It was designed as an high altitude interceptor but with look down/ shoot down capacity.
Dassault made the most out of what it could achieved with M53 engine, which was originally designed for heavy twin engine fighter (MD750 study, then Super Mirage 4000 prototype).
But French government decided it couldn't afford to procure high/ low mix (like F-15/ F-16), so the Super Mirage 4000 was ditched.

According to some AGARD conference I found on DTIC.mil, the FBW was viewed both as a way to lighten the aiframe (giving better climb rate for a same engine) and to overcome some of delta wing drawbacks.


So it's rather an interceptor with ok dogfight capacity than a turn rate dogfighter.


So it's light and nimble, but if you can't kill quickly with Magic or gun...quit
Also take into account that in real life, fighters don't fly alone.
So STR Vs ITR becomes much more interesting when you think about multiple fighters Vs each others
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Last edited by jojo; 04-21-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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