Dead-zone fix for formation flying with the Viper

I've flown fighters many moons ago but the basic flying is like cycling, you don't unlearn it, you're just rusty in the beginning. Of the flying, formation flying was one of the most fun and satisfying.

Having flown a lot of different aircraft since (about 15 types, from Tiger Moth to A350) and many simulators (about 10 including FSX/Prepar3D and real ones, moving or not, classical and FBW) I find DCS amazing!

I only found it four months ago and believe me it's another level altogether, even to the real flight simulators (haven't flown the best 4th and 5th gen dome ones but have flown some 4th gen and most of the airliner ones. DCS on a good rig is really good!).

Those who complain about DCS fidelity for the best mods are seriously spoiled! I find myself tired after a sortie, but I often finish with a 100ft low run down an ally (it's close to the real thing) and always taxi in and just feel the taxing realism and look at the surrounding animation when shutting down. Fantastic ED! and it really counts. It feels like I was in the real thing once again.

Now to my finding. I've been really frustrated with formation flying. It's something I loved to do and it didn't work in DCS as it should. I've mostly flown the F16 in DCS and the setting of a displacement stick (see the thread about deadzone https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251007 ) was part of it. But it still didn't jive. Today I found it.

Going from TM16000 (good low-cost HOTAS) to TM HOTAS (throttle good, stick gimbal sucks) and finally Virpil T50-C2 gimbal and grip I found it. Virpil has high-quality sensors with high resolution but as the last bits flicker (which they do for a high-resolution A/D) they have a deadzone of 2 bits on the Y (pitch) and X (roll) axis. This spoils it in formation flying. I today put both to zero and Wow!

You don't need this deadzone, the stick is dead output wise with what Windows sees (the logical output) without it, I checked with the output app.

I also checked it while flying the F16. Not touching the stick has a straight flying aircraft, yet it finally reacts immediately to the minute inputs needed in formation flying.

Just a tip for those flying Virpil, skip this deadzone in the Virpil physical to logical translation. It spoils the experience. Also, for any other stick, check for a dead zone for the stick or in DCS. Also, for the F16 put in a negative curve or limit the X-axis saturation (I fly with the latter), it's all in the deadzone thread.

There is one more thing which is not realistic, the absence of engine inlet spill over drag when throttling down. This makes the aircraft not slow down as it should when you approach a lead in formation or when going for a Gun position in a dogfight. I will write a special thread about it.

Nice post Bear. You've hit on the major issues we've "enjoyed" in desktop flight sims since the late '80s when I first flew wire frame WW2 "fighters" on a 1200 baud dialup modem. There have been some major advances but some still remain to be improved. 38 years of USAF and airline flying provide a good perspective on the current state of DCS. With VR and the HOTAS gear we have it's better than ever. But.

I find the Warthog decent but I have yet to fly the Viper with it. I've yet to fly the Viper period. I'd think that flying the Viper with a gimbaled stick after the real deal would mess with your head too much. I'm holding off for more refinement in the flight model. I also don't want to be bothered with changing over to my early model Cougar with the FSSB mod. I think that once the flight model is closer to finished it will be worth the time to swap out the Warthog and revert to the FSSB. Until then Jeff and the Hornet will keep me busy. There are a few too many early access modules for an old guy to keep up with when they change frequently.

Also, for the F16 put in a negative curve or limit the X-axis saturation (I fly with the latter), it's all in the deadzone thread.

Can you tell the exact numbers on that negative curve and saturation? Thanks in advance.

On 1/18/2020 at 11:37 AM, Bear21 said:

I've flown fighters many moons ago but the basic flying is like cycling, you don't unlearn it, you're just rusty in the beginning. Of the flying, formation flying was one of the most fun and satisfying.

 

Having flown a lot of different aircraft since (about 15 types, from Tiger Moth to A350) and many simulators (about 10 including FSX/Prepar3D and real ones, moving or not, classical and FBW) I find DCS amazing!

 

I only found it four months ago and believe me it's another level altogether, even to the real flight simulators (haven't flown the best 4th and 5th gen dome ones but have flown some 4th gen and most of the airliner ones. DCS on a good rig is really good!).

 

Those who complain about DCS fidelity for the best mods are seriously spoiled! I find myself tired after a sortie, but I often finish with a 100ft low run down an ally (it's close to the real thing) and always taxi in and just feel the taxing realism and look at the surrounding animation when shutting down. Fantastic ED! and it really counts. It feels like I was in the real thing once again.

 

Now to my finding. I've been really frustrated with formation flying. It's something I loved to do and it didn't work in DCS as it should. I've mostly flown the F16 in DCS and the setting of a displacement stick (see the thread about deadzone https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251007 ) was part of it. But it still didn't jive. Today I found it.

 

Going from TM16000 (good low-cost HOTAS) to TM HOTAS (throttle good, stick gimbal sucks) and finally Virpil T50-C2 gimbal and grip I found it. Virpil has high-quality sensors with high resolution but as the last bits flicker (which they do for a high-resolution A/D) they have a deadzone of 2 bits on the Y (pitch) and X (roll) axis. This spoils it in formation flying. I today put both to zero and Wow!

 

You don't need this deadzone, the stick is dead output wise with what Windows sees (the logical output) without it, I checked with the output app.

 

I also checked it while flying the F16. Not touching the stick has a straight flying aircraft, yet it finally reacts immediately to the minute inputs needed in formation flying.

 

Just a tip for those flying Virpil, skip this deadzone in the Virpil physical to logical translation. It spoils the experience. Also, for any other stick, check for a dead zone for the stick or in DCS. Also, for the F16 put in a negative curve or limit the X-axis saturation (I fly with the latter), it's all in the deadzone thread.

 

There is one more thing which is not realistic, the absence of engine inlet spill over drag when throttling down. This makes the aircraft not slow down as it should when you approach a lead in formation or when going for a Gun position in a dogfight. I will write a special thread about it.

 

Sorry for the revive, but how did you do this?