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Training mission issue: Kh29t missiles won't lock on


Osprey39

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I'm new to this sim so maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't think so. When I run through the TV guided weapons tutorial, I do everything it says to do but I can almost never get a launch authorization on the Kh29t missiles. I watched a Youtube video on how to use them just to be sure the tutorial didn't leave anything out and it didn't.

 

I've moved the camera to all parts of the tank, made the target box bigger and smaller and I have still never succeeded in getting a launch authorization. I have managed to get it after going around to make a second or third pass but when that has happened the authorization has been so brief that I didn't have time to actually fire the missile. I still have yet to successfully launch one. I don't know if this is a bug with the mission or not but I figured I'd post it and see if others have the same issue.

 

Please help, I'm getting very frustrated with it :cry:

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I can confirm the issue. I edited the "11- Su-25T Shkval Assisting Guided Bombs and Missiles.miz" and i succesfully hit one of the MBTs with Kh-29T.

At first, I changed the date to may, the time +1h, and removed all triggers. The result was: I was able to fire at minimum range with holded fire button. (LA came in the last second.)

The final solution was removing the continous cloud cover: medium range launch. But not suceeded to launch from max range.

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Damn, I guess it's good to know it's not just me but not good to know I'm going to have to play with the mission editor. That's a bit over my head at this point I think.

 

edit: I decided to try to edit the mission like discwalker said but I just changed the time of day to 11:45am from 9:45am and made no other changes and I was able to lock and fire the missile successfully. I'm not sure what range I got the LA at but it was well beyond minimum and it scored a direct hit. I then circled around and dropped the bomb no problem as well. Thanks discwalker! That was really getting on my nerves!


Edited by Osprey39
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I have the same issue. The question is? Is this a bug? Should we be able to lock the target sooner or not?

 

Yes, you should. Basically once the caret is inside the min and max range indicators you should be able to lock on and get a launch authorization. I'm pretty sure it's a bug because once I changed the time setting in the mission editor, it worked fine.

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Yes, you should. Basically once the caret is inside the min and max range indicators you should be able to lock on and get a launch authorization. I'm pretty sure it's a bug because once I changed the time setting in the mission editor, it worked fine.

 

Well, but I assume the system works by analizing the TV image and the time of day will definitely affect that. Less contrast might make the system unable to "see" the target. That's why I ask if this actually making it more realistic or it's a bug

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Yes, you should. Basically once the caret is inside the min and max range indicators you should be able to lock on and get a launch authorization. I'm pretty sure it's a bug because once I changed the time setting in the mission editor, it worked fine.

 

It is a limitation of the shkval TV camera system, that it is not good in low light situations, that is why they have a "mercury LLTV (LOW LIGHT TV) pod" as an option for mounting on that plane to see in low light situations, ie at night with candle bombing lighting and of course in bad weather, etc.

 

Same thing happens with Ka-50 shkval and Vikhr missiles.

 

Regards, Ian.

  • Like 1

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  • 1 month later...

While I can understand the comment about lightning condition for TV locks, I don't know if that really is the issue here, since even in the training mission, you can't get a lock at the moment (lock indicator going from KC to AC)

 

So I'm thinking, why would they set the Kh29T training mission in a lightning condition that doesn't allow the use of Kh29T....????

 

To me it's seems more like a bug...

 

And if it really is lightning, well I'm not proud of whoever programmed the training mission for the Kh29T...

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While I can understand the comment about lightning condition for TV locks, I don't know if that really is the issue here, since even in the training mission, you can't get a lock at the moment (lock indicator going from KC to AC)

 

Not saying there isn't an issue, just commenting on something to be aware of.

 

So I'm thinking, why would they set the Kh29T training mission in a lightning condition that doesn't allow the use of Kh29T....????

Unfortunately things change between patches for DCS, going from the old 1.2 to 1.5 did a lot to effect missions, with the season, time of day and year being changed due to the new DATE based season system, this did a lot to affect the lighting of the missions.

 

For example a lot of missions set at dawn in early morning or dusk in late evening with reasonable lighting became pitch black and needed the hour of day to be adjusted to get same lighting conditions or the date changed to make the day the same season as it was once manually programmed to be. (Big difference between 09:30am lighting in winter compared to summer), the fog and cloud haze also plays a large part.

 

Regards, Ian.


Edited by MadDog-IC

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I've done some experiments with time and weather.

Made mission on same location, same date, same time. Target was M1A1.

 

Only variable that made big difference for me was cloud density. When it was set on 0, had no problem locking at 4.5km to the target.

 

When I changed density to 10, situation was same as in the training mission. For me, it locks at approximately 1.5km, but that's too close to fire.

 

Seems that it's not a bug, but consistent calculation for camera visibility. Just not sure that it's modeled realistically, because in the particular situation, visibility doesn't seem to be an issue. But, who knows, might be. Never had a chance to "play" with real Shkval:)

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Can confirm, setting mission time to 11:45am resolved the issue.

This mission worked OK previously, but getting a lock is so incredibly difficult it's pretty much broken in it's current state.

 

Temp fix, edit the mission and set time closer to middle of day.

 

I stand by saying that ED should be fixing things like this.

Broken training missions can be a huge put off to potential new players.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Same thing, H-29T works perfect if I create a custom mission, but does not work in the official Campaign for SU-25T.

 

Did not test the time of day, but if every other weapon locks on consistent basis across different times (sun), then it's a bug.

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Can confirm, setting mission time to 11:45am resolved the issue.

This mission worked OK previously, but getting a lock is so incredibly difficult it's pretty much broken in it's current state.

 

Temp fix, edit the mission and set time closer to middle of day.

 

I stand by saying that ED should be fixing things like this.

Broken training missions can be a huge put off to potential new players.

 

Bingo. I have to say that I have been seriously turned off by many training missions getting broken. The only reason I stick around is because I am an old sim enthusiast and a developer myself.

 

But I have to say that for a new player, getting stuck on training mission bugs is a customer killer. That kind of things has a direct impact on the company revenue when newcomer give up. Personally I opened many bugs in the support forum that were never simply acknowledged. So as a customer you do not even know if they are aware of the bug or not.

 

In the case of that mission, it is a 15 minutes fix for the dev, but it was never made for an X reason.

 

DCS is a solid game, but unfortunately the communication channel between the developers and the players is really outdated and need a serious revamp.

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Bingo. I have to say that I have been seriously turned off by many training missions getting broken. The only reason I stick around is because I am an old sim enthusiast and a developer myself.

 

But I have to say that for a new player, getting stuck on training mission bugs is a customer killer. That kind of things has a direct impact on the company revenue when newcomer give up. Personally I opened many bugs in the support forum that were never simply acknowledged. So as a customer you do not even know if they are aware of the bug or not.

 

In the case of that mission, it is a 15 minutes fix for the dev, but it was never made for an X reason.

 

DCS is a solid game, but unfortunately the communication channel between the developers and the players is really outdated and need a serious revamp.

 

The forum moderators / testers do a great job sifting through the now very large forum. Got any ideas as a developer to how it could be setup better.

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The forum moderators / testers do a great job sifting through the now very large forum.

 

Not meaning to offend anyone, but clear and simple things are being missed.

 

Things reported multiple times, things that are a 5 minute fix, things that are important.

 

My first comments on the SU-25T training missions being broken go back 2+ years and are posted in an appropriate section of the forum.

 

I could contribute a lot more info about bugs but not seeing a dev ever acknowledge or replay to any of the issue threads is a bit of a putoff.

 

In a recent thread i re-visited the SU25T training and know being a little more confident in the editor tested and verified a few fixes.

I listed these fixes, and the thread is yet to get a reply.

Even if the task is palmed off to blind freddy, making these changes and pushing them out in a rush would be better then nothing.

 

Surely someone knows that many of the training missions are broken, but it isn't considered important.

 

I stand by my comment that ED is losing business to this, not a huge deal to me personally, but we're also losing potential new users to fly with and expand the community.

There probably a few people a day giving up on DCS because flying the SU-25T training makes no sense, and they simply might not be aware it's broken, as are several other training missions.

 

Like i said, no offense, but whatever sifting is being done is missing some long standing and glaring issues.

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I stand by my comment that ED is losing business to this, ...

 

Sure they do. I'm playing DCS for a couple of years now, but only came around to trying the "free" plane a couple of weeks ago (and I was suprised how much fun it is :pilotfly:).

Going through the Training missions I stumple over exactly this problem. Had I not been playing this game for quite some time, I would have thought that this game either is broken or that I am too dumb for it and would have stopped playing right there.

 

Seeing how easy this is to fix and how early in a tryout phase a new would-be buyer would come across this, I do not understand why not at least the mission is changed for now.

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah, not fixed.

 

A few months ago I edited the mission to be later (so more light), as I read in this thread and that way I was able to complete it. The mission should be set to start at least one hour later. But better 2 hours later or even more.

 

 

I just played this training mission again (now without editing it). I could get the Shkval to lock on one tank, but only after I am closer than the minimum range for that Kh-29T missile.

 

I tried circling over the target until the Sun gets higher and the light gets better, but there is not enough fuel for the time you need to wait.

 

So I tried another way: I landed on the other airfield nearby, I re-supplied and I waited there for better light. I took off and, with the better light, I could get the Shkval to lock while I still was farther away than the minimum range for the missile.

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Not meaning to offend anyone, but clear and simple things are being missed.

 

Things reported multiple times, things that are a 5 minute fix, things that are important.

 

My first comments on the SU-25T training missions being broken go back 2+ years and are posted in an appropriate section of the forum.

 

In a recent thread i re-visited the SU25T training and know being a little more confident in the editor tested and verified a few fixes.

 

I listed these fixes, and the thread is yet to get a reply.

 

I would like to say, whilst ED have their own time table as to what gets priority and when things get fixed, I also have my own priorities and preferences, such as the Su-25T, Su-27 + 33, Ka-50, A-10c.

 

I personally take notice of all user reports on faulty ED Modules missions and campaigns:-

 

  1. I can investigate and then log the fault with ED if I can replicate it (Within my understanding and I can define it well) and it requires work done that I can't do.
  2. Other wise I will log it for myself and correct the missions at a later date and then submit to ED for inclusion to DCS.
  3. Like ED I will not always respond in posts as it destracts from the work to be done.

Think of it this way:-

 

  1. If no one ever posts any fault reports, then nothing will ever be fixed.
  2. If multiple people complain of the same fault and it is easy to reproduce or good .trk files or video showing the problem are supplied, some one will take notice and in time it will be corrected.
  3. Don't expect to be consoled about your issues, just report and move on, you can't control what others do.

Even if the task is palmed off to blind freddy, making these changes and pushing them out in a rush would be better then nothing.

 

Surely someone knows that many of the training missions are broken, but it isn't considered important.

 

Like i said, no offense, but whatever sifting is being done is missing some long standing and glaring issues.

I agree with your comments, and this blind freddy is doing his bit to help, but rushing things out isn't an option as the work load has increased 5-10 fold on what it was for me alone, doing things officially takes much more time that you can appreciate (Never just a 5 minute fix if your thorough).

 

Myself, I am acutely aware of not only the missions you talk of being faulty, but just about all missions based on the Caucusas map.

 

All being said the current work for me are the Ka-50 campaigns - GOW and Deployment, so any work on the Su-25T training is well down the list in time frame for me.

 

Regards, Ian.

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I don't know if the Shkval camera should or should not get a lock under those lighting conditions, from a far enough distance.

 

The locking issue (if that is the issue) can be dealt with later.

 

But in the meantime, it would be very easy to fix this training mission, by changing the time of the mission. Make it start at 12:00, for instance. Make this edit and put it in the next DCS patch.

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