Degraded Su-27 aerodynamic lift - Page 21 - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-01-2018, 03:22 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Headwarp View Post
Regardless of consumption, I would assume if you wanted to compare the turning performance of the airframes from Aircraft A, and Aircraft B, any fuel added is an addition to the airframe. To give one more weight in fuel than the other is certainly going to effect its flight characteristics.

It's not the same as comparing flight longevity, and then that's not even considering whether or not there is a desire to compare aircraft using a set gross weight and what it would take to achieve equal numbers there.

That being said.. I'm not an aeronautical engineer or anything. So I'll not argue further, but since the subject was the turning speed of two aircraft and not the amount of time either is spending in the air.. seems to me equal amounts of fuel would only be fair. 1500lbs isn't exactly light. Think 3 gbu-12's and how a plane is effected dropping just one of them...minus the drag they would induce.
Who is arguing? - I agreed with you that 30% fuel doesn't amount to "the same" for the two aircraft in question.

But whether the same amount in kg is "fair" or not depends on how you look at it - e.g. what if I put 3500 kg of fuel in the Flanker and the same amount in the MiG-29...see what I mean?

Anyway, as GG said, to evaluate the turning performance of a particular airframe, you need to compare it to RL charts and match the conditions used in those and not bring in the performance of an entirely different aircraft.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:31 PM   #202
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I´ve read a document in russian where describes the AoA-G limiter and, with a rude online translation thats the conclusion for me. The extra weight and the opposite movement to the center is turned off with the limiter off. But maybe i´m wrong, im not sure. But the manuals says very clear that the limiter can be turned off.
Let's say that's correct, if the AoA/G Limiter won't give you an extra maneuverability, what's the use of it?
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:33 PM   #203
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And does it actually operate, or is our button just the stick pull-through?
Isn't the result the same?
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:34 PM   #204
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It will inform you that you've reached the 'safe AoA' level. We have no such feedback in-game, so instead you have a button to pull-through the limiter.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:38 PM   #205
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Overriding the AoA limiter in RL is pulling through the force imposed by the mechanism - there's no button like we have, so I basically disagree with your statement

I have seen different G limitations based on speed, but not AoA. Where is that?

I wouldn't be against concluding that limiter override doesn't give you quite enough authority for whatever reason.
In one of my previous posts I have already given you the page number (14\269) where it clearly states the AoA limitations depending on Mach number. (Cannot upload from my tablet sorry)

Also, again I am aware of the basics.

I think that the purpose of a limiter should be to hold the limitations Also, since pulling through the limiter might be dangerous, I don't think that it was meant to be overriden by the average pilot all the time.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:42 PM   #206
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The limiter is there to fly safe. Not to be turned off.

That is the use of it. XD

But in some circunstances, for example, exhibitions and in expert hands is possible to gain a little edge or margin for certain maneuvers, you can turn it off. But the rule is to have the limiter ON all the time. Because is a safety device for controlled flights.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #207
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The rule is to not use direct control (which some people use in dogfights! In a dogfight, realistically, you probably wouldn't be reaching for that switch anyway - and it isn't necessary either). The limiter can be pulled through by applying more force to the stick ... no need to turn it off RL.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:51 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Vitormouraa View Post
Let's say that's correct, if the AoA/G Limiter won't give you an extra maneuverability, what's the use of it?
In my opinion the purpose was to enable experienced pilots to get that last little bit of performance out of the aircraft at the expense of safety.

I think what the authors mean by that statement is that generally it does not worth the risk to go beyond limits. But also I have never seen an aircraft manual, that says: yea just go disregard any limits, it will be good for you
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:52 PM   #209
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Thats correct.

Just push enough on the stick over 17 kg, and the limiter is off. But also the switch is there if needed.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:54 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Esac_mirmidon View Post
...

I´ve read a document in russian where describes the AoA-G limiter and, with a rude online translation thats the conclusion for me. The extra weight and the opposite movement to the center is turned off with the limiter off. But maybe i´m wrong, im not sure. But the manuals says very clear that the limiter can be turned off.
I know what you mean. I've re-read that section a number of times. It doesn't seem to be saying that with "ОГРАНИЧИТ α, Пу" turned on, you can't pull beyond the safe AoA or G. It simply seems to provide you a warning (stick shake and extra force required) that you're moving in that direction. The rapidity of the stick movement also seems to come into play. A rapid stick movement causes the warning. A slow stick movement does not.
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