Degraded Su-27 aerodynamic lift - Page 26 - ED Forums
 


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Old 07-10-2018, 11:59 PM   #251
Esac_mirmidon
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LOL. XDDD
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:39 AM   #252
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ED is developing DCS for 30 years? How come they cant fix bugs so fast then if coders know source code as own pocket? How come that in 30yrs ED didnt manage to complete core engine stablility and modular system based on unified physics and DM, one ring to rule them all? Instead they deal with 'beauty' of dx11 api utilization and gpu subroutines thanx to Microsoft. Terrain aquired from nasa radar elevation points, beutified by 3d max outsourced plugins.. The only thru simulation task was to setup physics engine and ED neglected it. That was the only real task in 30years that shoul be progresively updated and set up as golden rule of simulation. Instead of modyfing super flexible template ed gives modules to ousourcing companys that do what, 3dmax model and animations for years. All charts found online in actual declassified flight manuals as valid sources. We, the customers dont believe that simulation is right, as can be easily seen if one compares simple missile range data from dcs one. Missiles never reach even 30% of their nominal range. Either air has super low Reynolds numbers or all models are actually enlarged by factor of two. Making two versions of game instead of implementing localization charts brings suspition that what is indestructible in EN version could be not on RU version and vice versa. Its up to ED to proove that DCS is real simulator by giving us comparison tests simulated vs real charts and deviations in any region if they want to shut up the customers. Even simultanious tests of all modules side by side that are validated by actual geometry and propulsion data. Either that or stop calling this rigged game an 'simulator'. Why so much trouble, well DCS made people spend tremendious amount of money on hardware aside from modules, to get what? Unoptimized 25fps game that is so obviously rigged in favour of specific on demand modules and uses single core aside from second for sound. Thats no game developement as it is manipulation of customers. We the customers value our time as much as ED does but we dont get the product we support. Even less, we dont even get minimum respect. Thats BS.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:46 AM   #253
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DCS does not exist for 30 years, the company yes ALMOST 30 years (27 is the actual number). DCS became a thing in 2008, but it's an evolution from famous series called LOMAC/FC and Su-27 Flanker.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:11 AM   #254
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I brought my Hotas Cougar in 2004 cause of flight sims, played all versions of lock on, up to dcs version now. Changed 3pcs since, every one cost around 3-5k bucks. Tracking every change ever since and I dont like the mess now. Im old enough to claim what is wrong from my perspecive as long time user and player. I know how FM and DM behaved before, and I'm sure many other witneses are here too to say some things are teribly wrong with physics. Is that a sin? Instead, I got banned for demanding some explanations as customer. I'm at that point to fire up vulcan api, dotnet, 3dsmax, setup team, kick crowdfunding and build and compile core engine that actually works. Later modifiyn prime template to morph it into any possible plane or craft in the world in matter of months not years, inteligent netcode that just cant be misinterpreted as teleportation. In that case I would just refund allmost complete DCS and go coding up to 3AM .. Somehow I'm still here, not becouse what DCS is now, bu because what DCS used to br once before... So we expect new DM? Tell me when it will be applied?
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:44 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmckay View Post
I'm at that point to fire up vulcan api, dotnet, 3dsmax, setup team, kick crowdfunding and build and compile core engine that actually works. Later modifiyn prime template to morph it into any possible plane or craft in the world in matter of months not years, inteligent netcode that just cant be misinterpreted as teleportation. In that case I would just refund allmost complete DCS and go coding up to 3AM ..
Do it, you won't

Are you even a software developer to say it would only take months ?
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:31 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitormouraa View Post
...

From my understanding, you are trying to teach Eagle Dynamics on how to receive feedback from their customers and possibly fix what (supposedly) is wrong. But see, you are talking to a company that is developing flight simulators for almost 30 years, you are NOT talking to amateur people here on this forum.
Sorry, I'm not teaching ED or anyone how to receive one's feedback, but only to look once again into the problem. Yes, a re-evaluation of the simulation, nothing else. It is indeed probably painstaking, but necessary to confirm beliefs and just equation estimations from facts.

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The developers do know what they are doing, especially the FM engineers. They have a TON of experience. It wouldn't be fair for them to change their code or whatever they programmed because of a random person (not in the offensive way - just a random person on a forum) considers a specific item to be wrong.
Ok, I agree with you that they may have experience, but what if the simulation still isn't right and there is place for better? Would it be wrong for them to re-work on the code? I personally do re-work what I've done over and over again UNTIL IT's GOOD. And I will make a new thread talking just about something that has been left un-simulated at all since LOCK ON FC1 with Su-25T. It's surprising that at their experience they've missed a very important aerodynamic simulation clue. It's about the leading edge and trailing edge devices and I'll start a new topic of this one later, because it's very important and right now NO PLANE in DCS has the right complete effects simulated for the slats/droops & flaps.

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Conclusion, ED devs do know what they are doing, and most of the time they are open to discussion about their work as long as you can provide enough documentation and/or images to prove your point. Seriously ED has been doing this for longer than you may imagine.
Good then, bring them in here and let's discuss...:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.p...96#post3562596

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Also, let's try to not say things like "They rather ban you and me and anyone else who contradicts them (ED devs)" because that's far from being true. And THAT can get you banned.
Let's hope so, cause I've seen a poor guy say a mix of incorrect and correct stuff regarding simulation (he was both right and wrong) and he was also talking about the Su-27 and got banned just for saying that he doesn't trust the FM. This is what changed my mind and made me say that!


Regards!
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Last edited by Maverick Su-35S; 07-11-2018 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:57 PM   #257
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I have seen much rabble rousing but the only people I've seen get banned were being obnoxious dicks. Kinda like certain peopke in this thread effectively insulting ED's competence and crying conspiracies as to why they aren't getting their way. I'm going to repeat some more COMMON KNOWLEDGE points that certain righteous crusaders continue to ignore



Missile physics are not right, that was acknowledged long ago and it is already been said it's in the pipeline for an overhaul. Stop being obnoxious and pretending you're some sort of sleuth or customer rights activist.

Damage model is twenty years old, and the rework started quite a while back, it ain't gonna haplen overnight. Stop cryibg conspiracy theories and making a fool of yourselves.



''IMA GONNA MAKE MY OWN GAME HURR DURR'' That's beyond ridiculous. You don't know how, and you wouldn't even if you did. Your ability to operate a word processor does not make you a master coder. Your degree in home plumbing engineering does not make you an aeronautical expert, neither do the articles you read online about airplanes.





''I'm going to make the best flight sim you've ever seen. It will be tremendous. I know flight sims, believe me. I've never made a flight sim, but I am so much smarter than everybody else. I'm so smart. People tell me all the time how smart I am. Especially me, I tell myself I'm smart every day. My playerbase is so large, they say it's the largest playerbase they've ever seen. It's so much bigger than ED's. It's tremendous. I'm going to make the biggest most beautiful flight sim you've ever seen, way better than failing ED's flight sim. It will be amazing, believe me. Buhlieve me. Who's that? An ED supporter? Get him outta here! Just get him outta here! Go back to failing ED, we're going to make the best flight sim in the world here and you can't stop us. My playerbase is so large, the best, way better than ED's. #MFSGA Make Flight Sims Great Again''
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:46 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
...

''I'm going to make the best flight sim you've ever seen. It will be tremendous. I know flight sims, believe me. I've never made a flight sim, but I am so much smarter than everybody else. I'm so smart. People tell me all the time how smart I am. Especially me, I tell myself I'm smart every day. My playerbase is so large, they say it's the largest playerbase they've ever seen. It's so much bigger than ED's. It's tremendous. I'm going to make the biggest most beautiful flight sim you've ever seen, way better than failing ED's flight sim. It will be amazing, believe me. Buhlieve me. Who's that? An ED supporter? Get him outta here! Just get him outta here! Go back to failing ED, we're going to make the best flight sim in the world here and you can't stop us. My playerbase is so large, the best, way better than ED's. #MFSGA Make Flight Sims Great Again''

Huh...!=)) Look man, don't embarrass yourself! I'm nowhere near the way you think of me. Don't be ridiculous, yet you may remain jealous and press enter too much after each paragraph! Love you too!
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Sincerely, your flight model fanatic!

Last edited by Maverick Su-35S; 07-11-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:19 PM   #259
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Coming back to the Flanker subject, our Su-27 in the sim can't reach the same angle of attack as the real jet when pulling full aft stick under similar conditions of compared to an airshow Su-27. The Flanker at airshows is able to pull more than 100 AoA with ease and without having to jerk the stick fore then aft in order to gain as much pitch momentum as possible to get an AoA as higher as possible. From level flight, our Su-27 can't seem to get the pitch attitude greater than 95 (+85 upside down more correct) or the AoA greater than 85..90. My guess is that either the elevator's lift isn't high enough (aside from the fact that the lift beyond stall becomes exaggeratedly low) or the CP doesn't move enough forward at positive AoAs. If one of these 2 aren't the concern why we can't get similar results to the real thing, then I let the "experts" here tell what's wrong, cause they can't deny what I'm saying as it's plain clear what happens.

https://youtu.be/emb6er8LOtk?t=241


Regards!
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When you're out of words when discussing something, let the maths talk for you.
I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly as real as possible.
Sincerely, your flight model fanatic!
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:57 PM   #260
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And here we are back to Youtube videos, feelings, and "thinks".

It has to be better than that I believe, if you really want to change something in the sim.
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