Mouse cursor relative to cockpit. Proposed change

With my anticipated upgrade to VR, and my continued frustration with hitting buttons in cockpit whilst trying to keep my Track-Ir view stable I would like to propose a change in how the mouse cursor works.

At the moment the mouse cursor is placed relative to the monitors view. What is actually shown behind the cursor can move quite bit if you can't keep your head very still, (I sometimes pauze trackir to work the switches)

How about making the mouse cursor work relative to the cockpit? With an added on mouse switch to center the view? In this way the pilot-cockpit interaction could be improved quite a bit IMHO.

I fly myself, and I know that the interaction with the plane is a lot more difficult when flying sims. Having a fully programmed HOTAS helps, but there is soo much more that could be done more easily. So I would appreciate any improvement that can be made.

Yes, either that or add BMS-style "sticky" buttons where the mouse snaps to things as you pass over them. However I find that irritating since it trips when you're moving past buttons you don't necessarily want to press.

Having the mouse be relative to the cockpit could be hard though, what if you forget where your cursor was? You'd literally have to be looking around for it haha.

I agree it`s really hard to click anything with track IR even with zoomed in view.

I think there was a thread regarding sticky coursor somewhere.

There was no response from ED .

I like the idea of the mouse snapping to the respective buttons, dials, and switches personally.

Having the mouse be relative to the cockpit could be hard though, what if you forget where your cursor was? You'd literally have to be looking around for it haha.

That's why I suggested to have a "center"action button. Most mouses nowadays have multiple extra buttons. Just use one to center the mouse when you need it.. Suppose you work the right panel and shift to the left panel, one click and the mouse is centered again.

True, it might not be easy to implement, but anything which could improve human - virtual cockpit interaction should be explored. And this could, I think, really make a difference.

I support all ideas in this page.

ED! PPLLEEEAASSSEEE!

Agreed, a mouse cursor staying over the control, where you placed it, rather then jittering around with your head movement, will be highly appreciated.

The idea of a center to viewpoint button (middle mouse button/ mappable to a HOTAS?) sounds easy and intuitive.

I realize that mouse cursor is now overlayed on the view screen and not so easy to change that, but it would be a way more intuitive way, especially in VR?

I think the snap to button thing is a good idea. I am not sure about the relative to cockpit mouse. It introduces a lot of difficulties because a cockpit is not a flat surface and the 3D positioning of the mouse can be really difficult in corners etc.

Just saying, RMB can be Mouse Pointer ON/OFF button and if you press long, an animation can appear around the mouse pointer; "Heey I'm over here!"

Agreed, a mouse cursor staying over the control, where you placed it, rather then jittering around with your head movement, will be highly appreciated.

 

The idea of a center to viewpoint button (middle mouse button/ mappable to a HOTAS?) sounds easy and intuitive.

 

I realize that mouse cursor is now overlayed on the view screen and not so easy to change that, but it would be a way more intuitive way, especially in VR?

Yup,

I have been exploring VR and it's pro's and con's for a while now in anticipation of a major upgrade. I think that my proposal has merit and could really make things easier. I work in a cockpit for a living, and when I program my FMS, or the autopilot or any other system it's soo much easier then when I do the same in FSX or P3D.. The same goes for DCS. Managing systems in DCS takes up a lot more effort compared to real life. For me personally I want the experience of flight in a flight-sim. I dont want to spend energy on keeping my head centered, turning track-ir off and on in order to perform something that is very low impact in real life, and would be performed without even thinking about it.

Just saying, RMB can be Mouse Pointer ON/OFF button and if you press long, an animation can appear around the mouse pointer; "Heey I'm over here!"

Implementation wise there there could be several ways to do it.

With the rotating switches you need both left end right mouse button. But like I mentioned before, most mouses have multiple extra buttons any which one could be used to center the mouse cursor or draw attention to it.

One could even think about changing the cursor's art a bit depending on what kind of switch it's hovering over. Or just turn it into a (small) left/right hand depending on what side of the pit you're working on.

I think the snap to button thing is a good idea. I am not sure about the relative to cockpit mouse. It introduces a lot of difficulties because a cockpit is not a flat surface and the 3D positioning of the mouse can be really difficult in corners etc.

You are right there, didn't think about that part of the issue yet. Perhaps somebody else can come up with a solution to that problem?

Btw, you have a boodschap.. ;-)

+1

Great ideas - either the snap-to or cockpit-relative cursor modes (or both!) would be great. I too have quite hard time clicking the right buttons sometimes when using headtracking, not even using VR yet (but I sure like to when it becomes cheaper!).

Implementation wise there there could be several ways to do it.

 

With the rotating switches you need both left end right mouse button. But like I mentioned before, most mouses have multiple extra buttons any which one could be used to center the mouse cursor or draw attention to it.

One could even think about changing the cursor's art a bit depending on what kind of switch it's hovering over. Or just turn it into a (small) left/right hand depending on what side of the pit you're working on.

 

 

 

You are right there, didn't think about that part of the issue yet. Perhaps somebody else can come up with a solution to that problem?

 

Btw, you have a boodschap.. ;-)

A possible solution may be a "sticky overlay" that simply snaps the cursor to the respective console/control panel and use the mouse movement to position/fine tune the cursor over the buttons/levers/knobs?

The general rectangles can be used from the 3D cockpit so when the cursor passes the border between, say front panel and right console, the cursor simply snaps to the right console and hovers 2cm above the 3D pane?

A possible solution may be a "sticky overlay" that simply snaps the cursor to the respective console/control panel and use the mouse movement to position/fine tune the cursor over the buttons/levers/knobs?

 

The general rectangles can be used from the 3D cockpit so when the cursor passes the border between, say front panel and right console, the cursor simply snaps to the right console and hovers 2cm above the 3D pane?

Yeah, that sounds doable.

A compromise. Snap the cursor/change cursor planes to different panels in the cockpit.

Though it can be proven laborious to get the cursor from one end of the cockpit to the other...

Maybe have an input on the mouse that if you hold it, the mouse is on the "perspective"-plane, and whatever panel you hover the mouse pointer over gets selected when you release said button, and the pointer transfers to the panel's plane. Selecting panels in this way should be easy enough as it doesn't require as much precision as flipping switches.

So it's like you "pick up" the cursor and drop it off at another panel.

Or is this too complicated? <.<

A possible solution may be a "sticky overlay" that simply snaps the cursor to the respective console/control panel and use the mouse movement to position/fine tune the cursor over the buttons/levers/knobs?

 

The general rectangles can be used from the 3D cockpit so when the cursor passes the border between, say front panel and right console, the cursor simply snaps to the right console and hovers 2cm above the 3D pane?

I love this. Together working on solving issues... Now we just need ED to implement it!

Yeah, that sounds doable.

A compromise. Snap the cursor/change cursor planes to different panels in the cockpit.

Though it can be proven laborious to get the cursor from one end of the cockpit to the other...

 

Maybe have an input on the mouse that if you hold it, the mouse is on the "perspective"-plane, and whatever panel you hover the mouse pointer over gets selected when you release said button, and the pointer transfers to the panel's plane. Selecting panels in this way should be easy enough as it doesn't require as much precision as flipping switches.

 

So it's like you "pick up" the cursor and drop it off at another panel.

 

Or is this too complicated? <.<

The idea with the movement button sounds great!

Center to view when clicked, move with view when held. Then snap to panel when released, in both cases. :)

Great idea. In my opinion we should have both options. Or in fact, All options. As the mouse is now, cockpit-centric free mouse AND sticky mouse. Then you can choose it to YOUR liking.

On a side note, at the moment the mouse already exists in the 3D plane thet it hovers over, so no worries, the mouse depth perseption works!

I would like the mouse cursor "hitbox" to be just a little bigger though (or respectively have each cockpit switch and lever have a slightly larger hitbox) to make hitting them easier.

Third: There is an easy solution to the "where my mouse at" problem. When you move your mouse, it becomes visible, right? So make it work like target markers and FPM on the hud! When the mouse is beyond your field of view, it flashes in that direction (edge of your screen) to show where it is. Nothing complicated in that. And when you leave the mouse alone for a while it goes invisible again to make sure it doesn't make you go crazy.

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

Really some great ideas in this thread!

I personally dislike the mouse cursor snapping very much (one thing I hate about BMS), but keeping the TrackIR (or VR device) steady with your head while clicking small buttons with your mouse or with a cursor fixed to your head can also be very annoying.

At the moment I have the "TrackIR pause" function on the middle mouse button, and use that if I have to click more than one or two buttons, such as when inputting stuff into the CDU (although most of the time I use my touchscreens for that). That would be very disorienting in VR though, I guess.

I'd love to have those ideas implemented and check which one is the least annoying in practice.

Really some great ideas in this thread!

 

I personally dislike the mouse cursor snapping very much (one thing I hate about BMS), but keeping the TrackIR (or VR device) steady with your head while clicking small buttons with your mouse or with a cursor fixed to your head can also be very annoying.

 

At the moment I have the "TrackIR pause" function on the middle mouse button, and use that if I have to click more than one or two buttons, such as when inputting stuff into the CDU (although most of the time I use my touchscreens for that). That would be very disorienting in VR though, I guess.

 

I'd love to have those ideas implemented and check which one is the least annoying in practice.

This is exactly why I'd like to see all three options. Because probably for someone else the current method works... Personal preference. Also, there is the option to slave your mouse to the center of your VR FOV, but that requires even more precision, and can be very annoying especially on something like the A-10C CDU, or some switches at awkward physical positions where you really have to stretch your neck to even see...

More options is NEVER bad, so long as they are OPTIONAL. :)

Yes!

Either the OP's idea, or the sticky switches from BMS, would be a big improvement.

The Mouse cursor relative to the cockpit was mentionend in the vr section. I think its a great idea and should be implemented. :thumbup: