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Normandy Map Discussion


Lenux

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"For free"? I paid for the Spitfire and map AND assett pack- I asume you (and almost everyone else ) did as well. This has nothing to do with charity. Nothing is done "for free". They picked up the mess, turned it around, which is nice- agreed. Still: the map is underdeveloped, a beta at best, and these people have a right to express frustration as to the handling of the issues above, as they have all paid a good amount of money for it. I understand that NineLine have taken this up with UGRA- and now we have to play the waiting game. Fine. But there is still valid reason to be frustrated.

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I got nothing for "free", I wasnt part of the kickstarter and paid for every single WWII module. Nonsensical comment.

 

Matt Wagner himself stated that the profit margin of WWII modules is huge compared to the modern stuff.

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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"For free"? I paid for the Spitfire and map AND assett pack- I asume you (and almost everyone else ) did as well. This has nothing to do with charity. Nothing is done "for free". They picked up the mess, turned it around, which is nice- agreed. Still: the map is underdeveloped, a beta at best, and these people have a right to express frustration as to the handling of the issues above, as they have all paid a good amount of money for it. I understand that NineLine have taken this up with UGRA- and now we have to play the waiting game. Fine. But there is still valid reason to be frustrated.
The original Kickstarter backers did get the map and a plane as a perk, according to what they backed. Mind, this was not a Kickstarter intiated or affiliated with ED.

 

Yes I paid full price for all, as well, but the point I was focusing on was ED has not decided to do a WW II map and planes, as a "cash cow", but to rescue the failed Kickstarter's backers, in the first place.

 

So it isn't a conspiracy theme.

Shagrat

 

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I got nothing for "free", I wasnt part of the kickstarter and paid for every single WWII module. Nonsensical comment.

 

Matt Wagner himself stated that the profit margin of WWII modules is huge compared to the modern stuff.

 

And? I still dont get your point, its not as if ED has abandoned the WWII era, if anything Nick Grey is breathing some more life into it. We see the discussion about the Mosquito, the Flying Legends pack, the P-47 and Me-262 are moving forward. The Damage model is an important part of where WWII will really start to shine.

 

ED is taking a lot of that profit from this "cash cow" and throwing it right back into the sim.

 

The Map still needs love, Ugra is a new 3rd Party team, and we have seen from all 3rd Party teams that there is always some growing pains. The have not abandoned Normandy, the fact that Syria has start only means that the team is strong and will continue to bring us new stuff.

 

So everyone needs to take it down a notch, I get the frustration on the map issues, we will get there though, but lets be careful not to get to carried away with our frustrations. I am beating the drum on my side as well, my love of flight sims lives mostly in WWII era (although I love the Hornet). I really wanna see a lot done with the Normandy map still, and future WWII maps to come.

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And? I still dont get your point, its not as if ED has abandoned the WWII era, if anything Nick Grey is breathing some more life into it. We see the discussion about the Mosquito, the Flying Legends pack, the P-47 and Me-262 are moving forward. The Damage model is an important part of where WWII will really start to shine.

 

ED is taking a lot of that profit from this "cash cow" and throwing it right back into the sim.

 

The Map still needs love, Ugra is a new 3rd Party team, and we have seen from all 3rd Party teams that there is always some growing pains. The have not abandoned Normandy, the fact that Syria has start only means that the team is strong and will continue to bring us new stuff.

 

So everyone needs to take it down a notch, I get the frustration on the map issues, we will get there though, but lets be careful not to get to carried away with our frustrations. I am beating the drum on my side as well, my love of flight sims lives mostly in WWII era (although I love the Hornet). I really wanna see a lot done with the Normandy map still, and future WWII maps to come.

 

My point is ED gave out a license to these guys and Luthier made it clear from the beginning that models ED already made will be a part of this DCS WWII package. Clearly this was not just a thing Luthier did in a solo attempt but it required lots of cooperation with ED from the very start. Map tools, import tools, this was a full blown cooperation effort. Obviously ED didnt envision Luthier burning all the kickstarter money and then dusting off. However its not like they were completely out of responsibility in the first place as this project beared the DCS label and DCS is EDs trademark!

 

Where is the new damage model, I am hearing talk about it for ages now? Were is the extra armament for the 109? If they were throwing cash into the WWII modules relative to profits then we should be further ahead in this endeavor, shouldnt we.. Lots of talk, but nobody seems to actually pick it up. The WWII community overall feels treated like a step child that noone cares for.

 

Its nice that you would also like to see additions and changes to the Normandy map. Just three days ago you wrote that the Normandy map is just about feature complete. So even if I cut Ugra some slack for being a new kid on the block, then that doesnt sound like anything will improve much, does it? I will surely not buy any new WWII map until the Normandy map is at least of the same quality as Nevada or Georgia.

 

Do you now get my point? I am sure you have to defend EDs perspective on this Sith, but if you are a true WWII nut you must feel the frustrations as well...

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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  • ED Team
My point is ED gave out a license to these guys and Luthier made it clear from the beginning that models ED already made will be a part of this DCS WWII package. Clearly this was not just a thing Luthier did in a solo attempt but it required lots of cooperation with ED from the very start. Map tools, import tools, this was a full blown cooperation effort. Obviously ED didnt envision Luthier burning all the kickstarter money and then dusting off. However its not like they were completely out of responsibility in the first place as this project beared the DCS label and DCS is EDs trademark!

 

Where is the new damage model, I am hearing talk about it for ages now? Were is the extra armament for the 109? If they were throwing cash into the WWII modules relative to profits then we should be further ahead in this endeavor, shouldnt we.. Lots of talk, but nobody seems to actually pick it up. The WWII community overall feels treated like a step child that noone cares for.

 

Its nice that you would also like to see additions and changes to the Normandy map. Just three days ago you wrote that the Normandy map is just about feature complete. So even if I cut Ugra some slack for being a new kid on the block, then that doesnt sound like anything will improve much, does it? I will surely not buy any new WWII map until the Normandy map is at least of the same quality as Nevada or Georgia.

 

I am sure you have to defend EDs perspective on this Sith, but if you are a true WWII nut you must feel the frustrations as well...

 

There is a difference between feature complete and making improvements. The map is slated to come with specific features, I want to see improvements beyond that. Example, Speedtrees. The performance would be better, and with it I hope hedgerows could be added for CA components. People have been throwing additions around like they were promised features, and they arent, so they add time to development. Ugra is also the first terrain 3rd party, the tools are not easy, and always evolving, they have done really good so far, and I am sure they want to continue to improve.

 

And I am frustrated, but I can temper that, I understand nobody can snap their fingers and make everything better, and honestly I am happy with what I have, I want it to be better, and I will keep working towards that, constructively and maturely. I bug the team all the time about Normandy. And I will continue to do so as long as things can be made better.

 

I wont tolerate silly accusations though, I know people like to throw around the paid asset pack or that ED is doing as little as possible to get the most in return, it's simple not the case. In a perfect world, everything would be free, easy and quick. It's not a perfect world. Add the team going through what they are right now, with their long time leader and friend leaving them, and its a perfect storm right now.

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I've been with DCS since 2013 not as long as some of you, I'm also 68 years old so for the past five years I've been waiting for the P-47 and issue with the maps and games itself just wondering if I'll be alive when the fixes happen Sad. TC

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  • 6 months later...

What would be a good summary of the hundreds of pages of messages surrounding this map?

 

I was originally interested in purchasing it along with the Spitfire, but seems like all you hear about it is the terrible performance of that map (worse fps at 10,000 feet than slaloming amongst the Las Vegas buildings, Vegas being butter smooth, and Normandy being a stutter fest.

 

What is the timeline here for a fixed and optimized package?

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Ugra has now in develop with the Syria map. Expected see some news about them with them has release.

 

Syria? And when should that one be released? Also early access or will that one be completed at release, allowing focus to be on fixing Normandy?

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I would buy the normandy map again thats for sure. Its not perfect but its solid, i personally like dcs ww 2 a bunch and ill buy everything to help fund its progress. i think its important to help new 3rd parties develope new stuff and it seems ugra is making a syria map that alot of us would like to have too...

 

in my opinion - the best flight sim in our solar sytem

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I understand that users of the forum are very optimistic and positive, don't get me wrong. I'm just here because outside of this forum, the map is getting really bad comments and if you take a guy like me, I'm clearly holding back from purchasing until it sounds like something that is playable.

 

For example assets apparently have terrible LOD management, have to get really close before they LOD in, and then when they do it's the full A lod, so framerate tanks immediately.

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it is playable in my opinion, i dont have the beefiest rig and have solid frames. i wonder what bad stuff u read about this map? for me this map is like all the other maps, it isnt better nor worse. speedtree tech is a thing tho

 

its hard to judge about something u havent tried :)

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i wonder what bad stuff u read about this map?

 

That it's the one that performs the worst and it's not optimized at all. To achieve the same framerate as on the other maps, you have to alter graphic settings.

 

You have people browsing through the files and finding monster textures. It's a vast amount of 4096x4096 textures. Diffuse, noise, specular and normal map, all in full resolution. And if they are used multiple times too, as in, multiple materials, then that makes it even worse.

 

Compare this to the other 3 maps, where it's tiny 256 or 512 color, some occasional spec, and a 2048x2048 noise with just a few normal maps.


Edited by Whozdär
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  • 1 month later...

That came out better than I expected :thumbup:

 

The music though.. if the video lasted longer, I'd have turned it off... it's dark here :cry: ... ;)

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello every everyone, I am back to DCS after 5 years to fly the Spitfire in Normandy. The spitfire is a fun plane despite some odd performance when panning with a mouse in the cockpit and also the cockpit itself wich i think it could be better.

 

My main disappointment is the map. After trying to improve graphics quality and start flying, i realized i was not having fun. The map is not graphically immersive and i am feeling sad about it. I will still try some AA settings, time, weather and seasons but i´m not hoping too much. I am not rich and the dollar price is really high in my country. I thought about a refund but never mind.. I rather wait for a map update. So you guys hope it is going to happen any time soon? Appreciate.

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