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F-14B Fastest on the deck


Delta59R

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Added P51 and Huey for fun! Id also like to add people are quick to call the A-10 slow but Iv never heard anyone call the P-51 slow.. :)

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You are about 8-10 knots slow with the TF-51 top speed, P51 clean can do about 332 configured properly at sea level, level flight, no dive in at your weather settings.

 

(WEP for 67.4 MP, 2700-2750 RPM and manually control the coolant radiator to minimize drag and still keep it cool enough to run for a while.)

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  • 2 months later...

All this talk about thrust -to- weight.

 

Guys, talking T/W is fine as long as you remember the weight(in our case we'll call it force of gravity) is only one force to be reconciled with.

 

Case in point T/W ratio is useless in talking about sustained turn rates - its all about T/D. If you want to talk acceleration then you need to find the resultant force from ALL the forces acting on the plane. For example a vertical climb... there is no lift in the vertical, there is gravity and drag against thrust. You are not accelerating anywhere in a vertical climb unless your thrust exceeds drag and gravity. In a horizontal acceleration gravity is neutral but must be cancelled out by lift which creates its own drag, added to the other classes of drag which in sum must be exceeded by the thrust.

 

T/W ratios are just relative terms used for general comparisons, but it does not really give you anything to work with in the end. Thrust vs the weight of the engine itself is useful, but again is limited when you start to try to gain insight into plane performance.

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Interesting thread. Some of those numbers appear to indicate that DCS modules are a bit all over the place in behaviour. Especially those hotter air increases. And Hornet keeps surprising when it's clean. Anecdotally, I have a racetrack that can measure very tight timings and after hundreds of player times, Hornet comes out on top, mainly because, to get max performance on the Tomcat, you have to fly within an inch of your life and most of the time the lack of G-limiter just kills you.

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This looks like some shenanigans with the engine modeling on some of these birds.

 

 

How is the F/A-18C beating out the F-15C?

Why do the Mirage, MiG-29, and Viggen get faster with hotter air temp?

Why does the F/A-18C lose so much more speed than others with hotter air temp?

 

And that mention of clean vs. empty pylons after firing off weapons really makes me wonder...

I'm also curious about answers to this weirdness :huh:

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The proof is in the -1, so, prove it :)

 

As for 'the F-14B should smoke everyone', there is literally no equivalent fuel configuration for clean aircraft where the F-14B will out-TWR an F-15C. In fact, the opposite is consistently true.

 

Here's the math for you:

 

Empty F-15C 29500lbs, max fuel weight 13400lbs, thrust 47000lbs

Empty F-14B 41800lbs, max fuel weight 16200lbs, thrust 56000lbs (60000lbs)

 

TWR at empty, half and full fuel:

 

[TABLE]AC|0|50|100|LBF

F-14B|1.34|1.12|0.97|56000

F-15C|1.59|1.30|1.10|47000

F-14B|1.43|1.20|1.03|60000

[/TABLE]

 

What if we use the same amount of fuel instead? Let's just use 8000lbs

 

[TABLE]AC|8k|LBF

F-14B|1.12|56000

F-15C|1.25|47000

F-14B|1.20|60000

[/TABLE]

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't be surprised if the F-14 has a drag advantage with fully swept wings, but then the question is - just how big is this advantage? Is it enough to overcome this TWR discrepancy?

The F-14 is a large aircraft, so even with a lower drag coefficient, the drag force might still close to that of an eagle's.

 

The F-15C in DCS has undermodelled engines despite whatever they claim. The F-14B should smoke everyone, but the F-15C should start catching it. The F-15E is a beast on the deck- especially the -129 powered jets. If they are clean they can just about supercruise on the deck.

Edited by GGTharos

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The proof is in the -1, so, prove it :)

 

As for 'the F-14B should smoke everyone', there is literally no equivalent fuel configuration for clean aircraft where the F-14B will out-TWR an F-15C. In fact, the opposite is consistently true.

 

Here's the math for you:

 

Empty F-15C 29500lbs, max fuel weight 13400lbs, thrust 47000lbs

Empty F-14B 41800lbs, max fuel weight 16200lbs, thrust 56000lbs (60000lbs)

 

TWR at empty, half and full fuel:

 

[TABLE]AC|0|50|100|LBF

F-14B|1.34|1.12|0.97|56000

F-15C|1.59|1.30|1.10|47000

F-14B|1.43|1.20|1.03|60000

[/TABLE]

What if we use the same amount of fuel instead? Let's just use 8000lbs

 

[TABLE]AC|8k|LBF

F-14B|1.12|56000

F-15C|1.25|47000

F-14B|1.20|60000

[/TABLE]

Having said all that, I wouldn't be surprised if the F-14 has a drag advantage with fully swept wings, but then the question is - just how big is this advantage? Is it enough to overcome this TWR discrepancy?

The F-14 is a large aircraft, so even with a lower drag coefficient, the drag force might still close to that of an eagle's.

 

 

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I reduced my forum time a bit. How are you? :D

 

Coming back on-topic, would you guys check this high-speed stuff? I've got a list of things I'd like implemented on the Eagle too, regarding overspeed based on IAS ... past 800kts on these aircraft you're risking aircraft disintegration ... in particular any control deflection can cause the physical loss of controls and potentially things they are attached to.

 

Would you guys be willing to look into such things? :)

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I reduced my forum time a bit. How are you? :D

 

Coming back on-topic, would you guys check this high-speed stuff? I've got a list of things I'd like implemented on the Eagle too, regarding overspeed based on IAS ... past 800kts on these aircraft you're risking aircraft disintegration ... in particular any control deflection can cause the physical loss of controls and potentially things they are attached to.

 

Would you guys be willing to look into such things? :)

 

 

We already did, but an overspeed desintegration isn't really achievable anyway, these damage effects we focused more on over G etc.. where it is more likely that you can put the ac through too much stress.

 

Anyhow, shoot me a pm some day, so we can chat up a bit, I hope the rest of the 44th is well, too.

 

S!

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Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

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So, any word why the Viggen (among some other aircraft) gets faster with hotter air temp @heatblur?

 

This looks like some shenanigans with the engine modeling on some of these birds.

 

How is the F/A-18C beating out the F-15C?

Why do the Mirage, MiG-29, and Viggen get faster with hotter air temp?

Why does the F/A-18C lose so much more speed than others with hotter air temp?

 

And that mention of clean vs. empty pylons after firing off weapons really makes me wonder...

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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Updated. About to add all in high temp too

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Updated with 50c/122f temps

 

 

That Viggen glitch gets crazy at high temps! Also noticed some interesting results for a few, like for example the MIG29 is slower then faster then slower again as temps go up.

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How did you set the temps that high? When I try to do that in the desert, it jumps back to 31.somethingish... Caucasus strangely has higher limits, but I never could set it above ~40°C either.

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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How did you set the temps that high? When I try to do that in the desert, it jumps back to 31.somethingish... Caucasus strangely has higher limits, but I never could set it above ~40°C either.

 

 

 

Hmm, It was in Caucasus, check the month, had it on July.

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The proof is in the -1, so, prove it :)

 

As for 'the F-14B should smoke everyone', there is literally no equivalent fuel configuration for clean aircraft where the F-14B will out-TWR an F-15C. In fact, the opposite is consistently true.

 

Here's the math for you:

 

Empty F-15C 29500lbs, max fuel weight 13400lbs, thrust 47000lbs

Empty F-14B 41800lbs, max fuel weight 16200lbs, thrust 56000lbs (60000lbs)

 

TWR at empty, half and full fuel:

 

[TABLE]AC|0|50|100|LBF

F-14B|1.34|1.12|0.97|56000

F-15C|1.59|1.30|1.10|47000

F-14B|1.43|1.20|1.03|60000

[/TABLE]

 

What if we use the same amount of fuel instead? Let's just use 8000lbs

 

[TABLE]AC|8k|LBF

F-14B|1.12|56000

F-15C|1.25|47000

F-14B|1.20|60000

[/TABLE]

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't be surprised if the F-14 has a drag advantage with fully swept wings, but then the question is - just how big is this advantage? Is it enough to overcome this TWR discrepancy?

The F-14 is a large aircraft, so even with a lower drag coefficient, the drag force might still close to that of an eagle's.

 

 

All very interesting, but not relevant.

Acceleration is impacted by thrust to weight.

Top speed is only dependent upon thrust and drag. Clearly the F14 has more thrust, I cannot comment on the drag, but you’d expect it to be good with wings swept


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Added time in After Burner

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Added top speed at 36kft and 15c

 

 

Few things I noticed, the Viggen is governed, (at 36kft) it would stop hard at 1003kn GS (It has so much more power). The F15 also, odd thing about it is you can see the model twitch/jump/glitch ever so slightly as is hits wall at 1497 @ 36kft. I had to run the MIG29 test a few times, its hard to keep stable (I'm not used to it), runs out of fuel FAST and a few times around ~1460 the engine caught fire..

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There's a switch to disable the governor in the Viggen IIRC. It's located on a panel on the right wall. I don't remember it's name though.

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There's a switch to disable the governor in the Viggen IIRC. It's located on a panel on the right wall. I don't remember it's name though.

 

Let me know if you figure out what it is. I know there's a switch on the right panel that regulates afterburners.

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Ok, that's fair.

 

What the F-14 doesn't have is the ability to fly at higher speed than the F-15, regardless of everything else.

 

At altitude, the limitation of the F-14 is M2.3 ... the F-15 2.5 (though you could definitely argue 2.3 here as well). That's the 'top speed', and the restriction is typically on IAS.

 

So, there's really no reasonable argument for the F-14 flying faster, though I suppose the lack of limitations could make it so.

 

All very interesting, but not relevant.

Acceleration is impacted by thrust to weight.

Top speed is only dependent upon thrust and drag. Clearly the F14 has more thrust, I cannot comment on the drag, but you’d expect it to be good with wings swept

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  • 2 months later...

Updated. The 16 has some very impressive numbers! And holy cow, you can run afterburner for an eternity! Double checking numbers based on gauges, it looks to be accurate (not sure about real world).

Fuel Flow ~23700 PPH / 7100lbs fuel = ~3.34, 60min / 3.34 = 17.96min

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F-16 fuel flow is 1/3 of what it should be right now. So cut that number to 5-6min (possibly less, as fuel flow depends on speed and you can get up to 80k-100k at speed) and you get something realistic.

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F-16 fuel flow is 1/3 of what it should be right now. So cut that number to 5-6min (possibly less, as fuel flow depends on speed and you can get up to 80k-100k at speed) and you get something realistic.

 

80,000 to 100,000 PPH fuel flow is real world?

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Yep. That's what it is for full AB at high speed and low altitude.

 

 

 

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