Which Cold War Era Model?

Hello all! HNY!

I'm thinking about conforming to a common addage that one should have at least one model from each of the eras represented in DCS 2.5+

I know nothing about these craft or their strengths and weaknesses; which one model would you recommend as the best of the era, in DCS terms, and why.

Thank you!

Sledge

The cold war is a very broad time frame that could include everything from the P-51 as it served in the Korean war to the F-18. So do you mean Korean era, Vietnam, or late cold war?

The cold war is a very broad time frame that could include everything from the P-51 as it served in the Korean war to the F-18. So do you mean Korean era, Vietnam, or late cold war?

Good question...and I don't know the answer, really.

Jet-age, though.

Sledge

What kind of flying do you want to? The Mig-15 and F-86 are iconic and great but aside from being perfectly matched for each other their era is underserved and their graphics are getting dated. The Mig-19 is a good module but doesn't really have any proper adversaries. If you want something Russian I'd say the Mig-21. It still looks great to me and if you employ the right tactics you can be dangerous to even the modern blufor fighters. It also is a powerful strike aircraft with the radar beam riding grohm missile. Its has alot of aerodynamic quirks and is a "pilot's Plane". If you want something truly unique there's the viggen which does one thing and it does it exceedingly well and that is fast hit and run attacks. If you want air superiority along with aerodynamic quirks and another "pilot plane" there's the F-14. The F-5 is a good module but I look at it more as an entry level plane for people going from FC3 to full fidelity. It's well matched for the mig-21 and is good if your flying as an aggressor. It's not truly competitive with modern planes but if your good and they're sloppy you can give someone a bad day.

Korean war 1950-51: both F-86 and MiG-15 are comparable with slightly different strenghts and weakness

Vietnam war 1967-72: there is only one fighter MiG-19 & US chopper Huey

Iraq-Iran war 1980-88: F-14A was the best fighter in the air, MiG-21bis and F-5E were used also

Flaming Cliffs low fidelity modules all represent late 1980s to mid 1990s standard. The best fighters are F-15C and Su-27, MiG-29S also.

F/A-18C Lot 20, F-16C block 50 CCIP, A-10C and AV-8B NA we have - all represent about year 2005 standard. With capabilities far beyound the cold war.

JF-17 block 1 is from 2013 - by far the most recent plane in DCS.

If you like cold war air warfare I would take F-14, MiG-21 and F-5. And either F-86 or MiG-15. Maybe MiG-19 also.

Choppers are another topic.

The Mig 21 or the F5. My choice is the Mig 21.

The MiG-21 is a pretty typical and classy cold war bird, but to really be able to give good recommendations you would have to be more specific on what you're looking for.

What era (50s Early Cold War/Korean War, 60s/70s Mid Cold War/Vietnam War, 80s late Cold War)?

What type of aircraft (fighter, striker, helo)?

For late Cold War, the Viggen and Harrier are good options. I love both of them.

For all that, the Mig21 is the real classic for the period.

It’s a pain to fly, nasty to land, has lousy radar, but is incredibly charismatic and probably best represents the archetypal Cold War aircraft.

In DCS, it’s key rival is the F5. Whilst i do occasionally fly it, I find it rather soulless after the 21

The MiG-21 also comes with additional perks to reward you, because you have to deal with its character ;)

Like not giving RWR nails until you shoot or having near to no IR signature when in afterburner (bugs, which mostly affect your opponents and not you)

Mirage 2000 might also be an option , introduced in the early 1980s, also a capable/ versatile aircraft for that era.However its still bugged,so depends a bit on what you expect/want from a module.

Regards,

Snappy

Surprised the F-14B wasn't given a mention ~late 80s aircraft so very much towards the end of the Cold War (we'll also be getting an A at some point which was mid-70s)

Otherwise I'd say F-5E, MiG-21Bis

Why does nobody mention the viggen? Superb A2G platform with funny and capable systems. And with some restrictions you can use it also in A2A.

And you get 3 full campaigns with it.

Some absolutely cringe worthy terrible advice in here.

While many of the basic versions of the aircraft mentioned started their lives in the last year or two of the cold war the overwhelming majority mentioned are a decade or two newer due to major game changing avionics and weapon upgrades.

The cold war ended in 1989. And I'd personally love to see some 70's-90's AC in game. But almost nothing we have actually correctly fits.

The Harrier we have is some franken version from the early 2003-15 era, the 87 version was vastly less capable in some ways.

The Hornet is 2007+ As is the Viper. Again, vastly less capable.

The viggen is a 90's model (pre 90's no BK90's no ternav)

The B model F14 is from the 90's

The M2k as it stands is "latest" version in use by the ADA, so 2000's era

Even the F5 is based on a swiss F5E from the 90's due to the RWR which given its current opposition is a major advantage.

About the only actual Cold war era modules are:

Mig15

F86 (franken again)

Mig21 bis.

Mig19.

If you want to toss in FC3

A10A

Su25A

Mig29A/G

Su27

F15C (ish)

All of which are 80's era

Upcoming "cold war" modules

F14A (and even that will be the Late version) 2020?

Mig23MLA by Raz 2020? And given its Raz and a cuban model to work from, I think franken mig will be likely.

F4E IF ED decides to do it 202x?

F8J by M3 202x?

Mirage F1 aviodev 202x?

The M2k as it stands is "latest" version in use by the ADA, so 2000's era

Not true at all. Our M2000 is pretty much the very first M2000 variant from the 80s, the Mirage 2000C RDI. The latest version in use by the ADA is the M2000 5-F with modern glass cockpit, modern HOTAS, new RDY Radar and MICA Fox 3 missiles.

About the only actual Cold war era modules are:

 

Mig15

F86 (franken again)

Mig21 bis.

Mig19.

There's also the UH-1H Huey and the Mi-8 Hip as true Cold War modules.

Upcoming "cold war" modules

F14A (and even that will be the Late version) 2020?

Mig23MLA by Raz 2020? And given its Raz and a cuban model to work from, I think franken mig will be likely.

F4E IF ED decides to do it 202x?

F8J by M3 202x?

Mirage F1 aviodev 202x?

Also upcoming are:

Mi-24P Hind

Sear Harrier FRS.1

Not true at all. Our M2000 is pretty much the very first M2000 variant from the 80s, the Mirage 2000C RDI. The latest version in use by the ADA is the M2000 5-F with modern glass cockpit, modern HOTAS, new RDY Radar and MICA Fox 3 missiles.

That's not all of the truth :).

The M-2000C is a 80s bird that we have is a 80s bird, the radar, systems and weapons are from the 80s.

But the aircraft that is implemented in DCS includes the improvements that have been made to the aircraft up to the years 2000s, like the NVG compatible cockpit, the ECM panel, the NVGs...

So if you make abstraction of those small differences, yes, it's a cold war bird.

That's not all of the truth :).

 

The M-2000C is a 80s bird that we have is a 80s bird, the radar, systems and weapons are from the 80s.

But the aircraft that is implemented in DCS includes the improvements that have been made to the aircraft up to the years 2000s, like the NVG compatible cockpit, the ECM panel, the NVGs...

 

So if you make abstraction of those small differences, yes, it's a cold war bird.

Yeah, but capability wise I'd say NVG's add alot of functionality that didn't exist in the cold war. I also though Raz re-did the radar so it was a newer version? Or did they just model it wrong the first time?

One could say it was too good and bugged at the same time.Now its only bugged.Excuse my sarcasm pls.

Also then simply don‘t equip the NVG.

Regarding the F-14 , if I understood it correctly Heatblur stated both the A and B were late 80s (87 onwards) models (notwithstanding some of the available newer equipment for them).

I think „cringeworthy advice“ overdoes it a bit.Better learn to live with some imperfections and pretense regarding cold war modules.

Much as I would fancy a pure CW simulation as well, but we have a very good approximation available under the circumstances.At least thats my take on it.

Regards,

Snappy

The F-14 got its A+ plus upgrade starting '87... which was later renamed B in 1991

One could say it was too good and bugged at the same time.Now its only bugged.Excuse my sarcasm pls.

 

Also then simply don‘t equip the NVG.

 

 

Regarding the F-14 , if I understood it correctly Heatblur stated both the A and B were late 80s (87 onwards) models (notwithstanding some of the available newer equipment for them).

 

 

I think „cringeworthy advice“ overdoes it a bit.Better learn to live with some imperfections and pretense regarding cold war modules.

Much as I would fancy a pure CW simulation as well, but we have a very good approximation available under the circumstances.At least thats my take on it.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Snappy

Sorry about cringe worthy comment, but it did make me cringe. But the details do matter quite a bit to how capable an aircraft is beyond what weapons it carries IMO. I mean both the AV8B N/A and F18C did fly in 1987, so some folks want to pretend they are relevant to the cold war as well, never mind the versions we have of both were massively upgraded through the 90's and 2000's.

Part of the issue of the just don't use it argument is that this doesn't work on MP servers. People will absolutely "use it" unless its explicitly turned off on the server side (which is why I always support stuff like a tick box to turn things off). I agree for offline use, or if playing in a group that agrees not to do it. Moreover, in many cases you "can't" do that with stuff like nav systems (on the harrier/F18 for example).

Also, I really do take issue with some of these modules being characterized as actual cold war. I mean the B version of the cat barely saw service in the cold war, mid 1987 to late 1989, 1.5 years? I mean "technically" it did, but a 70's or early 80's F14A would be a far more appropriate CW model. I'm not sure which "A" version we are getting.

Same story with the M2k it might be the 1984 model with various upgrades, but the magic2 was introduced in 86, and the 530D in 88, so maybe 1 years relevance, otherwise its OP. I'd love to see Magic 1's and 530F's as well which it could likely carry as well.

Frankly even the way too modern to be cold war RWR on the F5E (Sort of swiss 90's model F5E) we have gives it major and unrealistic advantages over the mig21.

No objections from me in regards to some systems in the F-18,Av8b that clearly show their 90s/2000s heritage.But at least the M2000 and F-14 are in my opinion somewhat valid actors for a -cold war gone hot- scenario of the 80s, with the aforementioned minor imperfections and pretending.

I‘m fully with you on the weapons loadout options(possible) and selective MP capabilities (Very unlikely if you ask me, too complicated and you would need alternative systems, e.g. the original 80s radar of the early F-18.)

Disadvantage of the Mig-21 yes, but you will always have that in some ways.Even on the Mig-29/Su-27 , the RWR is vastly inferior to their contemporaries,say F-14 /F-15, at least in multi-threat environment it will be impossible to adequately differentiate between multiple threats .

On the other hand the soviet fighters have their EOS advantage.

Maybe we’re drifting too far off topic.As for the OPs question I would say it depends on how perfect era-specific you want the module to be.

It you want perfect vintage cold war, there are really not that many modules,with maybe some more in the future.

Regards,

Snappy

Gald we are on the same page. I think the F14A is supposed to be at least a bit earlier with the ALR-47 and some other systems changes. So that will be great fit IMO, the Viggen "almost" fits, I just wish there was a way to turn of Ternav. And mostly I don't mind the mirage, I just consider it right at the very end of the cold war period, just like the Su-27. Whereas my interest is more in the 60's and 70's part of it. I really wanted that F4E that ED teased us with, hopefully whatever "mystery" module bumped it will be worth it.

There's only one way to quench the thirst for DCS modules, and that is getting them all:) Even if they end up as hangar queens it's cool to sit in them from time to time.

Some absolutely cringe worthy terrible advice in here.

 

The viggen is a 90's model (pre 90's no BK90's no ternav)

Sure - the AJS 37 compared to the 1971 AJ 37 has some additional weapon options like the Rb 15F and the BK90, but it's very much ozing 1970:ies cold war in my opinion :)

The AJS modification program a was rather mild upgrade of the AJ 37 from 1971. The JA 37 from 1980 was way more advanced than the AJS. Don't use the Rb 15f, BK90 or Rb 74 and you are very much flying an AJ 37 from 1971...

I think it is a great module with many interesting ground / naval attack options - but I am naturally heavlily biased by growing up rather close to a Viggen base :)

The AJS modification program a was rather mild upgrade of the AJ 37 from 1971. The JA 37 from 1980 was way more advanced than the AJS. Don't use the Rb 15f, BK90 or Rb 74 and you are very much flying an AJ 37 from 1971...

Except I'm not if I'm using Ternav... Which has downstream implications for all naviatation and weapons employment related to navigation.

I wish we had the late 70s, early 80´s jets.. But its not only that, we hardly have any assets on the ground for that era, no AAA other thna rdar guided or WWII, no Pattons or T-55/60, etc...

I wish DCS had leaned more to the 80's and 70s tech instead of this never finished all buggy 2000´s planes...

I jst cant understand why everybody didnt start with simpler planes les Avionics, systems, etc.. more character:

(I will keep the Phantom II and the Intruder because of the complicated systems and multicrew issues that would not make rthem easy to make)

BUT lest say f-100, A-4, F-104, F-105, F-8, A-7, Mirage III, Mirage I, Hawker Hunter, Jaguar, Mig 17, SU-7, SU 17, ect, etc....

( I keep teh fencer (su-24 out for same multicrew ansd systems dificulty)

Simple planes with tech that allready works ind DCS, good old iron and lead...