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Bf 109 G and further level flight trim, "zero" trim, dive recover forces, etc DISCUSS


rel4y

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Hi jcomm,

Yes, I'm talking about the cockpit stick which should and must give us visual cues.

The slide slip is done @ landing speeds, of course.

Yes, the 'virtual' pilot's head.

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2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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To estimate implementation we would need to know the each channel "strength tresholds" that are programmed for our virtual alter-ego sitting in the cockpit, but I don't know whether they were posted anywhere on the forum.

 

Right now the virtual stick and pedals movement rate and range matches the physical ones 1 to 1, but only up to this limit. I admit the limit seems to be rather low in the yaw channel (apparently DCS German pilots notoriously skip the leg day in th gym :D)

 

Can't say anything about FFB implementation, as I don't own such a stick, but I remember reading this functionality has been a bit of hit & miss affair in all DCS modules, so who knows if it works in 109 as it's supposed to...

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Surprisingly, the FF works great on FC3 modules but not so much on WWII modules.

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Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I hope German period charts are as accurate as they could be back then.

 

 

4. When trying to do the Californian Giant Slip the rudder is ineffective.. => do you find this correctly implemented?
Coincidentally I took yesterday 109 out for a stroll and I had to side slip it in one of the landings I made, even though I have heavy feet it sank as expected and I could make it to the runway without further notice. In the first (very well known) video the pilot (I don't know who he is) is amazing and he has a superior control of the machine, still I don't see any side slip there, he just made a curved approach as is expected in long nose tail draggers without front vision, probably using a bit of cross wind to his favour. He's way, way ahead of any average DCS pilot so don't expect to perform like him even inside a sim. He's also operating in a grass runway, that makes a difference. About Brunotte we all know the interviews.

 

Exactly, what is not happening in the module that you think it should, and what do you think you see in those videos not happening in the module?

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Where to find the mentioned docs?

 

You are discussing docs from Yo-Yo here.. I seem to can't find them. Could someone give me a hint?

 

thx, flankerrider

flankerrider


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Here you are!

 

 

Thx, Interesting!

flankerrider


CPU | AMD Ryzen 5900X | Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Graphics | ASUS 1080 | Storage | Crucial_CT1050MX300SSD1 (1TB, SATA600, 2.5", SSD, OPAL, SED) | SAMSUNG MZVPV512HDGL-00000 (512.1GB, PCIe3x4/NVMe, M.2, SSD, SED) Wheelbase | Fanatec Clubsport V2 Wheels | Fanatec Podium Classic | Fanatec Clubsport Pedals V2 | Fanatec ClubSport Shifter SQ V 1 Monitor | LG 2560x1080 VR Headset | HP Reverb VR1000 2nd batch | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind Pedals | Recaro-seat (ex-Lancia) | MonsterTech Rig |

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  • 7 months later...
As a new Me 109 pilot, could someone give me a TLDR, what settings in the plane do I need for hands off cruise flight please?

 

There already is a thread with a very vivid discussion regarding the Hands off-flying ability of the Kurfürst in this thread:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3345222#post3345222

 

 

As i already stated there for me works +2 nose down trim at 3000m MSL and around 420kph IAS as cruise settings without much input needed

Main Module: AH-64D

Personal Wishlist: HH-60G, F-117A, B-52H

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  • 9 months later...

Who flies 1.2 ATA in combat... just wondering..

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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Who flies 1.2 ATA in combat... just wondering..
In a simulator? Probably nobody. IRL according to Erich Brunotte everybody as they didn't risk an engine failure. Who's the fault for that?

 

 

 

Related to the OP, 1.10-1.15Ata, +2 nosedown trim, auto radiator, auto prop pitch, and whatever you need in trim tab for the rudder, it flies pretty much hands off with turn coordinator centred, even though you shouldn't as these taildraggers are like helicopters were you shouldn't take off your hands from the controls. But it does fly hands off there.

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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In a simulator? Probably nobody. IRL according to Erich Brunotte everybody as they didn't risk an engine failure. Who's the fault for that?

 

 

 

Related to the OP, 1.10-1.15Ata, +2 nosedown trim, auto radiator, auto prop pitch, and whatever you need in trim tab for the rudder, it flies pretty much hands off with turn coordinator centred, even though you shouldn't as these taildraggers are like helicopters were you shouldn't take off your hands from the controls. But it does fly hands off there.

 

 

 

S!

 

You mean the plane was capable of 1.8ATA with MW50 and it was NEVER used because Erich Brunotte said so?

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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You mean the plane was capable of 1.8ATA with MW50 and it was NEVER used because Erich Brunotte said so?
Yeah, probably some tests would had been taken back then for sure. But when a real pilot tells you they didn't risk an engine failure that means something.

 

 

 

Anyway who cares real life inside a game, right?

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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The official documents with the testing and the manual stipulate the opposite. But what bothers me (and others) is the missing elevators trim tabs which allow us to trim the plane (on the ground) but for speeds higher than the cruising speed, for example, going into a shallow dive and maintaining that speed to catch up with the enemy. In the current state, with the trim tab pre-set by Yo-Yo, we cannot do that and it's really frustrating, as I already broke 2 buttons assigned for trimming the nose. And second, the trimming is done by using a button instead of an axis.

Is it too much too ask for these??

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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The official documents with the testing and the manual stipulate the opposite.
Yeah, because a real pilot flying the real thing back 80 years ago can't be trusted instead of brave couch pilots. Sounds legit.

 

 

 

But what bothers me (and others) is the missing elevators trim tabs which allow us to trim the plane (on the ground) but for speeds higher than the cruising speed, for example, going into a shallow dive and maintaining that speed to catch up with the enemy. In the current state, with the trim tab pre-set by Yo-Yo, we cannot do that and it's really frustrating, as I already broke 2 buttons assigned for trimming the nose.
Yeah, because a trim tab which would be a force relief only noticed in FFB is what prevents you from breaking a joystick cause… joysticks breaks like that, right?

 

 

 

And second, the trimming is done by using a button instead of an axis.
Yeah, because you have a several some turns device to mimic real trim wheel and so you would never, ever, kinda "cheat" using it from one extreme to another in a second instead of pitifully turning it like the real deal, right?

 

 

 

Yeah, sounds good to me, nobody knows why all those requests are not fulfilled right now, I mean like tomorrow morning. What are they waiting for??

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Yeah, probably some tests would had been taken back then for sure. But when a real pilot tells you they didn't risk an engine failure that means something.

 

 

 

Anyway who cares real life inside a game, right?

 

 

 

S!

 

Did this guy was refering to K-4 or to G versions??

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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You mean the plane was capable of 1.8ATA with MW50 and it was NEVER used because Erich Brunotte said so?

 

Yeah, probably some tests would had been taken back then for sure. But when a real pilot tells you they didn't risk an engine failure that means something.

 

 

 

Anyway who cares real life inside a game, right?

 

 

 

S!

Erich said in the video that they avoided using WEP. Just because they were afraid of getting engine problems. He didn´t say they never used it. When they used WEP they tried to use it for a short amount of time only. After a longer flight with WEP they told the mechanics about it so they would check the oil filter, but Erich said that they were wondering about the bearings in the Dora´s engine, because they had no problems with them.

 

 

Fox

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  • 6 months later...

Can somebody pull more than 6.2G with the Bf? I remember that in the past I could do that but now it seems impossible. Are the stick forces changed for the worse? Aileron forces are fine but elevator forces are exaggerated? Full elevator authority is around 250km/h IAS. Check the videos below:

 

 

Tacview

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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  • ED Team
Can somebody pull more than 6.2G with the Bf? I remember that in the past I could do that but now it seems impossible. Are the stick forces changed for the worse? Aileron forces are fine but elevator forces are exaggerated? Full elevator authority is around 250km/h IAS. Check the videos below:

 

 

Tacview

 

Nothing was changed.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Very sorry, thank you for your observation. Forgot to upload.

See the original post

 

Which original post are you refering to? I cannot find any uploads.

Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt,

Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert.

 

Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh,

Der Jägerei ein Horrido!

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Which original post are you refering to? I cannot find any uploads.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=200423

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I pulled 11G in BF109 recently and rip my wing off :P

You just need proper trim set up for pulling high Gs


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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I pulled 11G in BF109 recently and rip my wing off :P

You just need proper trim set up for pulling high Gs

 

At what IAS? And what trim settings? And how do you pull the nose down in a dogfight (at that trim setting) when you have to push a button that rotates the trim wheel at a constant speed arbitrarily chosen?


Edited by amazingme

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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