Does "Loft" mode work? - Page 5 - ED Forums


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Old 02-22-2019, 07:50 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by sk000tch View Post
My responses are being mischaracterized or misunderstood here, no where do I say that DCS missiles suck. I am correcting facts, and trying to shed some light on the gross oversimplifications in this thread.
I suspect you're making things more confusing. People are asking about DCS, not about generalizations.

You can direct the missile to fly a loft pattern, however, if the effect of drag is modeled incorrectly, particularly if it does not accurately model the effect of air density on drag, then the loft flight path will not produce the same benefit.
That's great, but you can't quantify it.

That said, we don't even know if that's the problem. Perhaps the implementation is wrong. Perhaps players are trying to loft at 15,000 ft. I have no idea.
So there's a bunch of deference to IASGATG followed by 'we don't know what the problem is'. I disagree. We do know what the problems are, at various levels of knowledge. I have the DCS EQMs for missiles on my HDD, as well as graphs showing how they work for various drag and lift coefficients and at various AoAs. No, I'm not sharing.

Fluid dynamics in general are poorly modeled in flight sims.
By poorly do you mean 'not doing real-time CFDs'?

DCS is more middle of the road. Neither is inherently good or bad, they are design decisions.
Ok, good general info, likely new for some people and maybe it furthers their understanding.

The same is true for missile guidance. Again, having some experience programming PLC control, the idea that a guidance algorithm that guides a object traveling at several thousand mph to intercept a object traveling at several hundred miles per hour that is deliberately maneuvering in a manner to avoid being intercepted are simple or that anything resembling our military's most modern implementation is open source is nuts.
I'm just going to point you to PN and the fact that pretty much every homing missile uses it out there in some form ... and a guidance algo, it's readily simulated. So, we don't have kalman filters and guidance delays etc. We also don't need them, since we don't have to deal with noise etc. What's nuts is your assumption that you cannot deliver an equivalency in-game to existing guidance algorithms.

Evidence strongly suggests, based on the max aerodynamic range, that drag values are too high.
Ok, where's your evidence? Do you know how ED designs their missile aerodynamics? Have you tried matching AIM-9L/M flyout to the real thing? You might be surprised. So with that in mind, what I am saying is that if you have real figures for a given weapon and you can share them, ED can implement. If you don't, you can cite 'blah blah suggests' all you like, it isn't relevant.

In my opinion, the guidance system over reacts to target maneuvering, particularly in the early phase of flight.
No, the guidance system is using a form PN and it's doing exactly what's expected of it. That 'over-reaction' is missing features, not 'over-reaction' ... which by the way has been dealt with to some degree with the addition of variable PN constants to the guidance algo.

Again, my opinion, but multiplayer is better for decreased PK.
All that does is encourage gamey tactics. That's fine, it's what most people do. It's just the peeps who are trying to get more simulation out of this that pay for it. Increased Pk in the right circumstances will increase realism and generally enrich play.

fwiw I don't hear people complaining about SAMs too much. Jump in a 18 and go buzz the tower of the Kuznetsov, my assumption is that would be a bit more challenging in real life.
We're talking about lofting algos, not overall DCS issues.

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Last edited by GGTharos; 02-22-2019 at 07:53 PM.
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