Ells228 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 And bananas ;) Comparable, matched, same difference in my book haha Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Ok - it did happen; I managed to find confirmation from the other side. Seems to explain a lot of stuff, and it's totally classic: Okay, so before it didn't happen at all and now it did? http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1511876&postcount=128 Which would be because the F-22 gets into 'fights' with USAF ANG F-15C units, and Red Flag's red-air. Not Typhoons - and that you can probably verify :) Edited July 21, 2012 by JCamel If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Not in GB. :) I realised that when I re-read and saw 'EADS'. Was probably a very similar if not identical simulator though. Sadly I only got 15 minutes in it, not 200 hours. I got slightly longer on the static 2D development version, including some flying over the Lake District. Even if the Typhoon is a slightly better dogfighter,it doesn't matter that much,I'd be in a raptor anygiven day,if you can decimate your enemy from BVR just stay there and disengage if you're getting close.They still have to train dogfight but actually they don't need it,at least if the Raptor is as stealhy as all us think it is. Precisely. I don't understand the hang-up some people have with a fighter designed primarily for stealth BVR being beaten in a dogfight. When you look at the F-117A, the fact you now have stealth fighters that are even competent in dogfights, let alone excellent, is quite some achievement. All that's missing is some even longer range BVR missiles to maximise the stealth advantage. Edited July 21, 2012 by JCamel If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
xhaos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) The truth is that no one knows how stealthy F22 really is and how much advantage it has over other systems until they will be in a real conflict against some serious up to date platforms. This is why pilots need to be trained for dogfights. Even the US that knows exactly what RCS the F22 has does not know exactly what counter actions the other side might have that might void the stealth advantage. From frequencies used to MIMO detection arrays etc. To tell the truth I really don't get the idea of F22 deployment since its cost is astronomical in comparison and since you can easily develop a system where the amraams are carried by a UCAV and the designation and fire control can be done from a AWAC or even from a bunker. Just imagine how superior a system will be that detects enemy from 700miles and uses guided nEUROn's to intercept and launch MBDA Meteor. Such a setup would offer minimal operating cost, zero danger to pilots and would be dirt cheap to get. P.S. hint: keep in mind I am biased against the F22 because in my heart the YF23 should be ruling the sky. Edited July 21, 2012 by xhaos Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Even the US that knows exactly what RCS the F22 has does not know exactly what counter actions the other side might have that might void the stealth advantage. Actually yes, they do. What do you think they do with the F-22, put it out for display? They're concerned about stealth aircraft as well, so /having/ them makes it easier and faster to develop counter-stealth tactics and technologies. To tell the truth I really don't get the idea of F22 deployment since its cost is astronomical in comparison To tell the truth you don't get air combat is what you're trying to say :) A drone is great in some situations. Not in the majority. P.S. hint: keep in mind I am biased against the F22 because in my heart the YF23 should be ruling the sky. Hint: It lives in a museum. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 If it's coming from one side, it didn't happen. Okay, so before it didn't happen at all and now it did? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
SmokeyTheLung Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Actually yes, they do. What do you think they do with the F-22, put it out for display? They're concerned about stealth aircraft as well, so /having/ them makes it easier and faster to develop counter-stealth tactics and technologies. Kinda the same in that regard as the f-117. We definitely knew how to use that thing in combat/what to worry about :megalol: ...I'm going to hide behind another moderator now, lol :D System specifications: Computer, joystick, DCS world, Beer Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 To tell the truth I really don't get the idea of F22 deployment since its cost is astronomical in comparison and since you can easily develop a system where the amraams are carried by a UCAV and the designation and fire control can be done from a AWAC or even from a bunker. Just imagine how superior a system will be that detects enemy from 700miles and uses guided nEUROn's to intercept and launch MBDA Meteor. Such a setup would offer minimal operating cost, zero danger to pilots and would be dirt cheap to get. Radio signals can be jammed. Goat farmers don't tend to jam them, so they do work in some situations. Of course the next gen will be fully automated (more or less) so there will be no signals to jam. P.S. hint: keep in mind I am biased against the F22 because in my heart the YF23 should be ruling the sky. I'll agree with that. If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 If it's coming from one side, it didn't happen. According to you F-22s simply didn't do air-air engagements with Typhoons but now you've found a story you want to believe (from who knows where), so it did happen. Did you once do situation reports for Saddam Hussein's regime... as Comical Ali.:megalol: I'll hide too now. 1 If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I don't see what you have to hide about. Everyone likes to bandy about some huge failure of the F-117 where the thing really ended up being a huge success, but hey, I get it, people like to think they're being funny :D Kinda the same in that regard as the f-117. We definitely knew how to use that thing in combat/what to worry about :megalol: ...I'm going to hide behind another moderator now, lol :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Listen here comical pot-kettle-black man, since youa re obviously not understanding it, I will spell it out to you: We've seen 'claims' here before. Generally speaking, things that happened for real tend to be somehow corroborated by both sides. All you did was find some story you wanted to believe, and never bothered to find the other side ... so laugh it up, but the joke's on you :D According to you F-22s simply didn't do air-air engagements with Typhoons but now you've found a story you want to believe (from who knows where), so it did happen. Did you once do situation reports for Saddam Hussein's regime... as Comical Ali.:megalol: I'll hide too now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
SmokeyTheLung Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 xhaos wrote this: Even the US ... does not know exactly what counter actions the other side might have that might void the stealth advantage. To which you responded: Actually yes, they do. I can accept that you have more knowledge than the average forum user, myself included, but really? You must know something that know one else does ^^^^to me, this is the funny part. Not some emoticon laced response from the likes of me anyway, don't want to be disrespectful. But couldn't help but call you on that, it's just not true. And it's never been true, since the first human conflict we have been figuring out how to outclass our enemies. We (as humans) don't give this info away readily. In fact (having studied history) it usually takes open conflicts for these steps in technology to become apparent, and be appropriately countered. So yeah US government does not know every single threat that the stealth f-22 might face in an open conflict=FACT 1 System specifications: Computer, joystick, DCS world, Beer Link to comment
rattler Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well I got to say I never knew we had so many experts here on Aerospace Engineering, Physics, Aircraft Propulsion, aircraft wing design,latest avionics and radar systems and latest weaponry. WOW. I bet if you get these people all under one roof, we could have a 6th generation fighter.:v: Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think you should study that history some more, then :) anyway, don't want to be disrespectful. But couldn't help but call you on that, it's just not true. And it's never been true, since the first human conflict we have been figuring out how to outclass our enemies. We (as humans) don't give this info away readily. In fact (having studied history) it usually takes open conflicts for these steps in technology to become apparent, and be appropriately countered. So yeah US government does not know every single threat that the stealth f-22 might face in an open conflict=FACT [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
SmokeyTheLung Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Dead end with this one for me I'm afraid. ...I'm as stubborn as you :D System specifications: Computer, joystick, DCS world, Beer Link to comment
monotwix Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I’m self proclaimed historian, I can’t qualify because I forgot. Eurofighter Typhoon - Avionics? I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ahh, the endless circles. The circles are perfect! :D Dead end with this one for me I'm afraid. ...I'm as stubborn as you :D 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 On A-10 1.1.1.1 the F-117A is almost indestructable. It can take about 6 direct hits before going down. Not very stealthy though. If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Listen here comical pot-kettle-black man, since youa re obviously not understanding it, I will spell it out to you: We've seen 'claims' here before. Generally speaking, things that happened for real tend to be somehow corroborated by both sides. All you did was find some story you wanted to believe, and never bothered to find the other side ... so laugh it up, but the joke's on you :D No, I believe I found two stories from both British and German pilots vs your account of someone who had a different recollection of something you first claimed never happened. But it's nice that you found someone to back up your side of something that never happened happening in a way that's agreeable to you.:D Well I got to say I never knew we had so many experts here on Aerospace Engineering, Physics, Aircraft Propulsion, aircraft wing design,latest avionics and radar systems and latest weaponry. WOW. I bet if you get these people all under one roof, we could have a 6th generation fighter.:v: Work is afoot but they don't involve pilots and are therefore not applicable to DCS.:smilewink: Edited July 21, 2012 by JCamel 1 If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
monotwix Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 They just sneak around and that’s it. The pilots however are still working on the hot fixes and patches. I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. Link to comment
rattler Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No, I believe I found two stories from both British and German pilots vs your account of someone who had a different recollection of something you first claimed never happened. But it's nice that you found someone to back up your side of something that never happened happening in a way that's agreeable to you.:D Work is afoot but they don't involve pilots and are therefore not applicable to DCS.:smilewink: hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha:thumbup::D Link to comment
monotwix Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well unsuck it then! I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. Link to comment
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Are you failing to understand on purpose, or do you just not understand? It's ok anyway, you won't be the first nor the last to do so, and your stories are still pretty much bunk. Perhaps in the future you will not push statements that are outnof context :D No, I believe I found two stories from both British and German pilots vs your account of someone who had a different recollection of something you first claimed never happened. But it's nice that you found someone to back up your side of something that never happened happening in a way that's agreeable to you. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment
JCamel Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Can I push statements that I later prove are incorrect myself and then continue arguing? Edited July 21, 2012 by JCamel If the telegraph pole takes off after you, it is not a telegraph pole. Link to comment
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