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F-14D??


OnionSpider13

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starting to hate the aircraft wishlist threads too :thumbup:

 

This. People complain about new modules being announced before other EA modules are done, but the second an aircraft is released five new threads pop up with "OMG pppppplease make X aircraft HB"

 

Bit convoluted if you ask me...

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guys, HB basically said it's not going to happen. They don't have the documentation for the systems to make it. It's all classified, since Iran still flies the 14A, and they're not exactly friends with the US.

 

 

 

Post 191 of this thread and the quote from Cobra seems to paint a different picture than your “facts”

 

 

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Why the Iranian Alphas has anything to do with possibility of doing Delta? We already have B and soon we gonna get A, so?

I don't care for the D, just curious... starting to hate the aircraft wishlist threads too :thumbup:

 

 

 

Well since YOU don’t want it....please see post 191.

 

 

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I'd buy the Super Tomcat in a heartbeat! With Cobra saying its likely last year I imagine we'll get it one day. Edit: Scratch that. HB does not have the data since that stuff is classified:

It would be awesome to eventually do a PTID Tomcat or even a -D Tomcat. Problem is that we're missing too much information to be able to do them justice.

 

For the PTID birds it's mostly data on the different PTID menus etc.

 

For the -D it's quite a lot in regards to MFDs and the AN/APG-71.

 

It would be a fitting end seeing what the Super Turkey is capable of. I'd pay full price for it

 

Does anyone know if the Delta was launched with Kaiser Aerospace AN/AVG-12 HUD when it was put in service or was this a later upgrade?


Edited by alexkon3
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  • 2 months later...

I am very much enjoying the F-14B, though would really prefer the added capabilities and convenience of the D to the reduced performance and quirks of the A, though the ideal would be to have all.

 

I am kinda hoping for an unofficial mod of ST21, too.

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we need a classical F-14A with no upgrades

 

That’s my dream now that B(U) and D are completely off the table, an original tomcat from VFA-1 or 2 with just ALQ-100 on the chin. Functional glove veins, no cover for the refueling probe, and no pitot tube on the radome. :)

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It would be sweet just to have all versions of the Tomcat. Paves the way for alot of different missions and time period scenarios. Hopefully HB eventually gets the okay to attain the technical data needed to build an F-14D.

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That’s my dream now that B(U) and D are completely off the table, an original tomcat from VFA-1 or 2 with just ALQ-100 on the chin. Functional glove veins, no cover for the refueling probe, and no pitot tube on the radome. :)

 

 

I think only an F14D that can be interpreted (at least as of now) "completely" off the table for lacking data on FCS and AN/APG71 integration.

 

with the B it was just some blanks on a few PTID menu options.

 

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I'd love to have a D model variant. But for now, even a B model with a Sparrowhawk HUD upgrade would be great!

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I think only an F14D that can be interpreted (at least as of now) "completely" off the table for lacking data on FCS and AN/APG71 integration.

 

with the B it was just some blanks on a few PTID menu options.

 

PTID and it’s digital interface with the new SMS along DFCS. The F-14B(U) aside from the new WCS is nearly as capable as the D build. It’s more then just a new screen and HUD. Someone would need to obtain its weapon manuals and they are just as protected as the Ds. The USN doesn't want people to know how the analog systems in the original F-14 could be augmented to handle digital smart weapons, and EGI.

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PTID and it’s digital interface with the new SMS along DFCS. The F-14B(U) aside from the new WCS is nearly as capable as the D build. It’s more then just a new screen and HUD. Someone would need to obtain its weapon manuals and they are just as protected as the Ds. The USN doesn't want people to know how the analog systems in the original F-14 could be augmented to handle digital smart weapons, and EGI.

 

Not necessarily. I have a 2001 documentation of the f14b. It's just prior to the revision that includes additional upgrades like sparrowhawk hud and inclusion of jdam which would be end of life circa 2004-05

 

However at this point the bomb cat already has Has dfcs , PTID , and also egi. This is all well documented, including em diagrams for application of flight model. The radar and fire controls are still all analog as the current 90s f14b as it still utilizing the same awg9 system., no changes noted yet in TO of the manual. Therefore Sparrowhawk or JDAM isn't necessary to have a more up to date F14B unless going for a finalized end of life F14B(U) . Thus no changea need to be made with regards to radar or fire control system.

 

As for the digital smart weapons, the JDAM guided bombs and associated mil bus std1553 ain't a military secret. Its applied to other jets already present in dcs.

 

 

So yea an early 2000s f14b could still be done even if still not perhaps a totally finalized f14B(U) with Sparrowhawk although as others have pointed out perhaps one could fill in the blanks for the sparrowhawk hud by looking at the t6 Texan manual.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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The F-14B(U) is equipped with the AWG-9s Radar components but the fire control system was upgraded to the AWG-15F and H which in the A2A modes is not much different the APG-71, the 71 really just adds a lot of air to ground functionality, it’s essentially a scaled version of the F-15Es radar and fire control system for the tomcat. It can do SAR, ground mapping and has a few other useless A2G modes that don’t matter much today.

 

The busses may not be a secret, How JDAMs work may not be a secret. But how they interact with the F-14 most certainly are. Knowledge of that might help someone with an F-14A integrate new weapons on it. Where as how other fighters use them is irrelevant, as the F-14As fairly unique and is proven to be difficult and expensive to retrofit. The Purpose of upgrading the Fire control system in first place was to allow just that.

 

 

What we have in game now is essentially the first example of an F-14B with new engines and RWR, and nothing else, circa early 80s. But most F-14 versions including As got modernized to make them relevant in 90s, with the features mentioned above. By the time it was retired, there's not much the F-14D could do that the rest of the fleet couldn't, The D just made it easier and brought it inline with its contemporaries like the bug. But as far as mission set goes the F-14B(U) and updated F-14As are as able to perform the same missions as the D, with the notable exception of their flight restrictions as they were literally coming apart at the seams. But if we pretend that wasn't an issue because this is DCS then there's not much the D can do that B(U) can't, its just fancier.


Edited by Wizard_03

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Respectfully that specific county doesn't need US manuals because you can't reverse engineer tech from it anyways purely by knowning the procedures. That holds about as much water as using a flight sim to observe general procedure to copy technology, but as most of us realize computer code does not substitue for any in depth understanding that compromises avionics technology. If that were the case none of the current in service aircraft would be allowed to be simulated.

 

Furthermore They already have digital modernization of the F14A avionics with help from Chinese and Russians to what basically amounts to an F14A(U), which also includes compatibility with locally produced missile derivatives and Russian ones.

 

 

On another note the AWG15H is still not as capable in A2A as the APG71. APG71 wasn't just A/g Stuff, it was a fully digital radar derived from the F15E's which in turn was a further evolution of the APG63 PSP with better A/G stuff. However mind you that even last production series of around 40 F15C eagles were also fitted with the APG70 due to the cessation of APG63 production ( that radar also had some A/G modes). In A2A aspects APG70 is essentially comparable with APG63( PSP), and on the strike eagle A2A page is virtually the same as the F15C. You cant compare an old analog radar with a merely updated fire control to utilized to present information for a new HUD to a totally different radar design that is virtually fully digital and much more mature as a whole. You can still see this in RIO cockpits when comparing the B(U) to the D.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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On another note the AWG15 is still not as capable in A2A as the APG71

 

Especially considering that, unless I'm reading this chart wrong, the AWG15 is the system that handles interface between the aircraft and the stores and not the radar. :music_whistling:

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Especially considering that, unless I'm reading this chart wrong, the AWG15 is the system that handles interface between the aircraft and the stores and not the radar. :music_whistling:

 

Ultimately what i was getting at. Fire control aspect is pretty much just that. AWG9 as a radar itself still has the limitations of a old analog types of its class had at the time relative to more modern digital radars utilizing the medium PRF such the APG63, etc.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Alright then you guys enlighten me, why is the documentation secret, if the information is worthless and the WCS is so outdated? Why can’t they get their hands on it.

 

Also the fire control system handles the interface between the weapons and the WCS which includes the radar. It handles the data link and target hand off to the weapons. It’s pretty important, It’s how you get the weapons where you want them to go. The radar is just a sensor without it. And the fire control system is what changed when we go from A/B to B(U), I.E. when we go from publicly available too secret. Never mind APG-71.

 

Further more regarding performance You just stated yourself that the it uses the same dish as the AWG-9 and that the the 63 and 70 are comparable in A2A if that’s the case I don’t understand how more screens and digital radar gives you this tremendous edge over the older set. What exactly is the difference, what can the 71 do in A2A modes that 9 can’t. Whatever it is it can’t be that critical since the AWG-9 was used right up until 06 on everything except the D however the Fire control system was retrofitted on most jets by the time it retired.

 

It seems like one mattered a lot more then the other, in the eyes of the USN. Otherwise they would have focused on updating all the radars to D standard.


Edited by Wizard_03

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Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see an F-14D in DCS And I’ve been lobbying for B(U) since it was announced they were doing the B. But we've been told by the developers multiple times that the B(U) is out because they’re missing data, maybe not as much as the D but enough to matter here.


Edited by Wizard_03

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Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see an F-14D in DCS And I’ve been lobbying for B(U) since it was announced they were doing the B. But I was told by the developers that the B(U) is out of the question as much as the D and for the same reasons. The lack of unclassified material.

 

AS ive said F14B(U) in all honesty is something of a unofficial term.

 

 

various documentation will have comparison charts and note F14B with brackets to denote upgrade features.

 

 

F14B with PTID ( is an upgrade feature) F14B with DFCS is an upgrade, as is EGI an upgrade feature. Its just that when people refer to F14B(U) they have this idea as i mentioned earlier of a finished/ ultimate version of the F14B Upgrade program near the end of its service life. Ie the F14B with Sparrowhawk

 

 

AWG15H replacing initial AWG15R can and was installed to PTID equipped F14B even before sparrowhawk, that was still used in conjunction with the original HUD. PTID a digital multipurpose display unit relative to the older "fishbowl" TID. Even the main page is essentially the same format as old TID. The prime reason for the PTID was better for use with the Lantirn. AS we know minus initial evaluation, and for a brief period of 1996-97, where 25 cats were reportedly using Lantirn with TID , otherwise source state that any Lantirn equipped cat ( be it F14 A or B) would need to have PTID integration.

 

So as i suggested IF documentation is not present for the finalized version, go for a early 2000s version. that has "upgrade" features, but not a final culmination of all of them. Because there very much is 2001 publication prior to added revision that presents the F14B in such a fashion.

 

 

At this point in time you are looking at a F14B that is improved upon in having a PTID, DFCS, and EGI, but not yet JDAM integration or Sparrowhawk HUD since they were still being evlatuated and would not being installed to fleet until the following year(s) after 2001.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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