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Old 03-18-2019, 07:01 PM   #31
Dudikoff
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Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
I've read multiple articles to that effect, so if it's nonsense it's widely propagated
Of course, it's on the Internet.

But, given that the study has shown that each newly produced F-22 would cost at least $200 million USD, it's of little use as it's deemed too expensive.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:08 PM   #32
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I would frankly build the other 570 F-22s, and make a note of the extra expense and to never do anything as stupid as cancelling a successful aircraft at 1/4 production numbers ever again.
By the time production was stopped the F-22 had very few supporters on the inside. The DoD and USAF, in particular, seemingly couldn't wait to terminate production. The resistance to do so came mainly from the politicians (and Carlo Kopp)!

I have never seen anything resembling an official explanation of why this was the case, so we have to rely on scraps of information, rumours and guesswork.

It certainly seems that upgrading aircraft to a later block standard, or upgrading multiple block standards simultaneously to support a new feature/weapons/sensor etc. is prohibitively expensive. So my guess is that somebody realized that it would be impossible to build a significantly larger fleet of aircraft that would ever be logistically sustainable!

Whatever it was, something was seriously f****d-up about the program - and, whatever the problem is, restarting production of the F-22 is unlikely to be a solution.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:09 PM   #33
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By the time production was stopped the F-22 had very few supporters on the inside. The DoD and USAF, in particular, seemingly couldn't wait to terminate production. The resistance to do so came mainly from the politicians (and Carlo Kopp)!

I have never seen anything resembling an official explanation of why this was the case, so we have to rely on scraps of information, rumours and guesswork.

It certainly seems that upgrading aircraft to a later block standard, or upgrading multiple block standards simultaneously to support a new feature/weapons/sensor etc. is prohibitively expensive. So my guess is that somebody realized that it would be impossible to build a significantly larger fleet of aircraft that would ever be logistically sustainable!

Whatever it was, something was seriously f****d-up about the program - and, whatever the problem is, restarting production of the F-22 is unlikely to be a solution.
That's not what I read. The USAF wanted to keep it funded but the top guy at the time was an army man and he wanted more funds to support the army in Iraq.

Well one of the upgrades proposed was to give the F-22 a modular avionics architecture to make it easier to upgrade. Additionally I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to re-skin newer models in the easier-to-maintain F-35 material. It's certainly a lot cheaper and quicker than building a new stealth air superiority fighter.

One of the main problems was that bits of it were being built in 42 separate states, ironically this was done to make it 'politically bulletproof', but ended up making production more costly, so that's one of the other ills that should be resolved in a hypothetical new F-22 build.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:24 PM   #34
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FYI..the Pentagon's office of the inspector general has opened an investigation into favoritism towards Boeing for the F-15X buy since the SecDef is a Boeing guy.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:38 AM   #35
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That's not what I read. The USAF wanted to keep it funded but the top guy at the time was an army man and he wanted more funds to support the army in Iraq.

Well one of the upgrades proposed was to give the F-22 a modular avionics architecture to make it easier to upgrade. Additionally I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to re-skin newer models in the easier-to-maintain F-35 material. It's certainly a lot cheaper and quicker than building a new stealth air superiority fighter.

One of the main problems was that bits of it were being built in 42 separate states, ironically this was done to make it 'politically bulletproof', but ended up making production more costly, so that's one of the other ills that should be resolved in a hypothetical new F-22 build.
You may be correct, but I would be surprised if the program could have been terminated so easily if the USAF were fully behind continuation.

The irony is that one of the key innovations that was intended to make the F-22 such a winner - 'integration' - may ultimately have led to its downfall.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:13 PM   #36
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You may be correct, but I would be surprised if the program could have been terminated so easily if the USAF were fully behind continuation.

The irony is that one of the key innovations that was intended to make the F-22 such a winner - 'integration' - may ultimately have led to its downfall.
There's a story in a KeyPubs book about it. The USAF was not onboard, I think they had to replace a guy in the end. But when push comes to shove, it's elected politicians who hold the vote.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:37 PM   #37
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The USAF was not on board with the Raptor termination. They wanted at minimum another 80 F-22's, if not 100.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:57 AM   #38
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The USAF was not on board with the Raptor termination. They wanted at minimum another 80 F-22's, if not 100.
Correct. The USAF wanted at least 320+ Raptors to replace the F-15C fleet. They begged for that number.
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