Is it technically possible to make base textures better? - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


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Old 09-10-2019, 09:46 PM   #31
OttoPus
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Well, I'm not the one who expressed this ambition. Because I perfectly know that reality, in a 2019 software, HAS to be approximated with some trade-offs. Something can be simulated, other things just must be mocked as convincing as modern tech can get (especially visual ones).

I'm not going further here, there's a whole other topic about this and references on other game engines and sims.

Out
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:31 PM   #32
Gierasimov
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Lightbulb This is simply wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
IIRC those two cities were added almost at the end of development as an extra, weren't they? I can't remember now were those cities are in the map TBH so I won't claim they are exactly at the edges of the map (detailed area of course, not whole map) or not right now but something of that may come as flashes to my memory.

S!
Nope. Bandar Abbas is marketed as detailed city on the product page. Khasab was there since day one and both are located in the focus of the map which, again by the product page, is the Strait of Hormuz.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:12 AM   #33
Grimes
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It is basically due to the satellite textures used as a base layer with "game textures" layered over it for cities and then not spending a lot of time perfecting the texture or tiling. It wouldn't shock me if there is a level of automation in the initial creation of paths and choosing city tiles that resulted in this. There is only a finite number of city tiles that can be oriented or cropped however the designer wishes, thus there is no technical limitation. The only limitation is time spent on a map/area before moving onto another area or whole separate map.


Just to illustrate the difference Caucuses and Normandy on the other hand are basically 100% game textures with the satellite textures on Caucuses being limited to non-populated areas of the map only visible at higher altitudes but blend into game textures the lower you are. See the screenshot. Kerch airport is clearly seen on satellite textures, but the main point is the west side of the strait isn't part of the game map and uses satellite imagery, while the east side is all game textures.

I certainly consider it to be a bug, especially in the larger areas that have the discombobulated look that is prevalent in the boonies of Iran. Just be aware that the terrain team is likely working on the next map and/or helping with Syria. I simply don't know how much time is spent on maintenance of older maps aside for AI bug fixes related to the map.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:47 AM   #34
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Thanks Grimes.
These are valid and interesting points.
All effort went to the new (updated) Caucasus, which is free for all to enjoy, and poorly optimised texture layers were used for a paid product.
As said, it looks like Syria (Middle East project) is much better in this regard, hopefully new ED maps will be more like Caucasus and less like PG too. I understand resources needed vs. time/effort, maybe that's why ED is not willing to talk about their maps... not ready to show...
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:36 AM   #35
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I just used the Caucasus to show the "satellite vs game" texture differences. Didn't necessarily try to state which had more time and effort put into it. For the updated Caucuses most of the building locations, design of textures, fields, etc didn't change much. Instead if was a better mesh, fixing terrain issues, and some additions of roads/bridges that saw where most of the work went into. Anyway I attached a screenshot from PG that shows both in action. There is the village area clearly with 3d objects and pretty clear border of the textures but you can also kinda see what looks like the town baked into the actual satellite texture. Perhaps a similar location on Caucasus would look better simply because instead of a satellite view it just has a generic nature textures as the base layer of the map giving a more logical texture transition.


Overall I think the way ED are building maps works great for densely packed cities, but not so much for the edges of towns and the boonies. That said PG is pretty bad about repeating textures and city blocks. See the last 2 screenshots. On NTTR there is a pretty identifiable apartment block, but the blocks are only occasionally right next to each other and when that is the case they are usually rotated or have city streets cut into the block making the repeat a little less obvious. PG on the other hand, I was to lazy to highlight every single instance of the same buildings repeating, but it should be easy to spot.

Syria's quality remains to be seen. Gotta remember that before it is released ED control what is shown in promotional materials, as such they will try to choose better looking areas. That said I'm fairly certain Syria has been used in some F-16 promo shots and it still exhibits tell tail issues I look for when reporting terrain bugs.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gierasimov View Post
Nope. Bandar Abbas is marketed as detailed city on the product page. Khasab was there since day one and both are located in the focus of the map which, again by the product page, is the Strait of Hormuz.
Roger .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gierasimov View Post
All effort went to the new (updated) Caucasus, which is free for all to enjoy, and poorly optimised texture layers were used for a paid product.
Mate, that's quite unfair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimes View Post
That said PG is pretty bad about repeating textures and city blocks.
I think desert textures aren't helping there, it's way more difficult to hide that repetition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimes View Post
PG on the other hand, I was to lazy to highlight every single instance of the same buildings repeating, but it should be easy to spot.
Just the one you posted is indeed the same texture, though part of it and rotated in a way they look different.

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Old 09-11-2019, 10:23 AM   #37
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Thanks all!
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baco View Post
Show me a better combat sim map ....

And no photo realistic looks like shit on a combat sim, you need 3d objects not juts photos on the floor.... The 1 thing I really could not stand about Falcon was the "photo realistic" terrain... anything below 1000 feet was rubbish...
First of all, photo real does not have be flat. Textures are just textures. Then you've got the overlays on top of it with all the buildings, trees, etc.

Anyway, wanna see a better map ? Have a look at Cliffs of Dover Blitz Edition. It's an improved, updated version of a game released in 2011. The update itself came in Dec 2017 according to Steam. It happens to include parts of Normandy so I ventured there to compare it to the Normandy map in DCS. I haven't touched DCS Normandy ever since.

You look at it and it's just authentic. I haven't seen any ridiculous texture blending that makes you realize something is wrong like the ones shown in this thread. Cities look like cities, the road layout is more accurate, etc. If they can sell the whole game including the map, lots of planes, missions and campaigns for $10 on Steam (though apparently it's more in other countries, have a look at your Steam) then don't tell me ED can't do any better for $50.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:13 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtsw View Post
First of all, photo real does not have be flat. Textures are just textures. Then you've got the overlays on top of it with all the buildings, trees, etc.

Anyway, wanna see a better map ? Have a look at Cliffs of Dover Blitz Edition. It's an improved, updated version of a game released in 2011. The update itself came in Dec 2017 according to Steam. It happens to include parts of Normandy so I ventured there to compare it to the Normandy map in DCS. I haven't touched DCS Normandy ever since.

You look at it and it's just authentic. I haven't seen any ridiculous texture blending that makes you realize something is wrong like the ones shown in this thread. Cities look like cities, the road layout is more accurate, etc. If they can sell the whole game including the map, lots of planes, missions and campaigns for $10 on Steam (though apparently it's more in other countries, have a look at your Steam) then don't tell me ED can't do any better for $50.
Yeap, beautiful map!
Too bad they had to scratch the whole engine because it just didn´t RUN... (another venture I supported with my wallet and left me hanging LOL)

And now we have Battle series, While COD has been discarded No Photo realistic tiles there.. Gorgeous maps tho, but much less populated and fewer polys, and buildings... not to mention smaller...

P.S. By the way I Payed Cliffs of Dover over 70 bucks back in the day.....so the 10 dollars argument is rubish, its a discarded game with so many bugs that they had to discard the whole engine... and yes some of us Il-2 boys payed 60 or 70 bucks for it....

Last edited by Baco; 09-12-2019 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:16 AM   #40
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Still I believe Grimes Has a good point. But then again ED doesn´t do only maps, so how much time can you pay people to fiddle with a product that sells for only 60 bucks if not on sale....

I don´t know, everything is perfectible, but I believe some times we are looking the gifted horse in the mouth....

Last edited by Baco; 09-12-2019 at 06:20 AM.
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