Does INS alignment does anything atm?

i've notice some veteran streamers dont even switch their INS knob to cv/ground and just go straight to IFA... waiting the 3minute isnt that bad but does it actually matter? or the feature isnt implemented yet?

Autostart (yeah I know) also goes straight to in-flight alignment.

My guess this option is there to really get of the ground quick.

Don't know if it is simulated within DCS and what consequences it has not aligning the INS system with the current build of the FA-18.

Full INS alignment process is not implemented yet. You can go from STBY/OFF directly to NAV mode. I encourage you to follow alignment procedures so that you are "ready" when that code gets implemented.

I was wondering the same, as even though i still do the process, so the day it'll be implemented, i won'T have all of a sudden to extend 3-4 minutes my waiting time.

I wounder if that really does matter though, as each time i go on most severs, all i see is Hornets taking off ASAP with fully loaded of AAMRAMS only and thats it, as long as they can spam their AIM-120, INS or not people don't care :(

I wounder if that really does matter though, as each time i go on most severs, all i see is Hornets taking off ASAP with fully loaded of AAMRAMS only and thats it, as long as they can spam their AIM-120, INS or not people don't care :(

With the current build you don't need it though, thats the issue. Together with the F10 map you can always figure out where you are or where you need to go to. Weather on most servers allow you to do so much on visuals as well.

Do people know what future systems will require a fully aligned INS system?

Datalink or guided weapons maybe?

Full EGI/INS alignment

HereThen,

This is a great question. From the nerdy side of things, you don't taxi or takeoff without a fully aligned INS. The jet gets all of its positional data from the INS/EGI(INS with GPS). Pitch, Roll, Yaw, and Location. The airplane is able to fly without this data, but you would not have a horizon line in the HUD, a Flight Path Marker, and your Navigational Displays would be blank. (This includes all the weapons ability for reference as well.) You would not normally taxi without a full alignment. Depending on the model of EGI some jets can begin realigning when they stop in the EOR. This is not normal practice, even for an alert launch. Doing an IFA after takeoff is an option, but you are all in if it doesn't work. (real world) You also have to fly straight and level unaccelerated for 50-100 NM.

An INS is required pretty much all A/A (minus the AIM-9M and unguided Bombs) but you will have no reference to drop CCIP or CCRP (coming soon). You would be Manual bombing with no Pipper. JDAM's wouldn't leave the jet if you pickled. AIM-120's would not either. Keep in mind we haven't begun to talk about GPS Jamming.

Currently the A-10C is meched exactly to how the system works, while I have not tried to fail the system in flight to test it. However, I appreciate the 4 minute wait time which is very realistic, but I like the quick align in the Hornet, because I want to go fly. I can simulate the fact that I would sit on the ground 3 more minutes. I wish this was an option in all of the INS/EGI equipped aircraft and I don't think it detracts from the realism. I hope that helps answer your question. Most of my experience is in F-16's which utilize the same EGI as the A-10 and F-18.

v/r,

Kdubz

However, I appreciate the 4 minute wait time which is very realistic, but I like the quick align in the Hornet, because I want to go fly. I can simulate the fact that I would sit on the ground 3 more minutes.

 

Kdubz

This^

It would be nice if they added the option in the "Special" menu as Razbam has done for the AV8B. A multiplayer mission designer can just spawn the aircrafts without fuel if they want to slow you down after death.

Agreed

This is not throwing spears at DCS and I completely agree with you. You should not have to trick them game to get a quick align.

I think you should still have to perform the switch actuations, but not have to wait the time. A checkbox in the options menu would be great. The fact that you can get it in the Harrier proves it can be done and is fair. Great point!

v/r,

Kdubz

HereThen,

 

This is a great question. From the nerdy side of things, you don't taxi or takeoff without a fully aligned INS.

 

...

 

v/r,

 

Kdubz

Thanks Kdubz, never knew so many could be harmed in DCS without a proper alignment.

Good to know and a little bit terrifying. Lots to learn when the FA-18 will be as far developed. :book:

True. This applies to all of the modern airplanes in DCS, but each one is modeled differently. Hope that helps.

HereThen,

 

This is a great question. From the nerdy side of things, you don't taxi or takeoff without a fully aligned INS...

You can depart with a partial alignment.

24.2.3.4.3 CV/GND Alignment Completion (Aircraft without GPS). An IFA may be used to

complete a partial CV/GND alignment. At takeoff with a partial alignment the INS platform should

already be leveled (no INS ATT caution). Therefore, all that needs to be done is to place the INS mode

select knob to IFA with the appropriate PVU option selected, until an OK is displayed.

About this topic, what is the counter that we have in the middle of the moving map display. It never reach zero... but stop at 0.5 usually...

You can depart with a partial alignment.

Doing a real IFA requires about 6-9 min driving straight and level and it’s more of an EP. The normal practice is to get an alignment before departure. This is possible in your normal ground ops time. The intent of the message was to add a quick align option for all platforms in DCS.

Kdubz

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the alignment time is accurate, then it's perfectly possible for it to align without delaying you during a full startup. I start the alignment right after the AMPCD is powered on, before I even do the left engine, then go through the rest of the startup procedure while that's going on in the background. It's usually right at OK by the time I'm ready to taxi, so all I have to do then is go to Nav and pop the parking brake.

It doesn't do anything really right now, but I like to be ready for when it does. I like my HUD nice and level and my pippers right on point.

I have heard a few things.

One: no simulated GPS system exists in DCD.

Two: there is no INS drift, so no actual alignment exists.

HereThen,

 

 

 

This is a great question. From the nerdy side of things, you don't taxi or takeoff without a fully aligned INS. The jet gets all of its positional data from the INS/EGI(INS with GPS). Pitch, Roll, Yaw, and Location. The airplane is able to fly without this data, but you would not have a horizon line in the HUD, a Flight Path Marker, and your Navigational Displays would be blank. (This includes all the weapons ability for reference as well.) You would not normally taxi without a full alignment. Depending on the model of EGI some jets can begin realigning when they stop in the EOR. This is not normal practice, even for an alert launch. Doing an IFA after takeoff is an option, but you are all in if it doesn't work. (real world) You also have to fly straight and level unaccelerated for 50-100 NM.

 

 

 

An INS is required pretty much all A/A (minus the AIM-9M and unguided Bombs) but you will have no reference to drop CCIP or CCRP (coming soon). You would be Manual bombing with no Pipper. JDAM's wouldn't leave the jet if you pickled. AIM-120's would not either. Keep in mind we haven't begun to talk about GPS Jamming.

 

 

 

Currently the A-10C is meched exactly to how the system works, while I have not tried to fail the system in flight to test it. However, I appreciate the 4 minute wait time which is very realistic, but I like the quick align in the Hornet, because I want to go fly. I can simulate the fact that I would sit on the ground 3 more minutes. I wish this was an option in all of the INS/EGI equipped aircraft and I don't think it detracts from the realism. I hope that helps answer your question. Most of my experience is in F-16's which utilize the same EGI as the A-10 and F-18.

 

 

 

v/r,

 

 

 

Kdubz

This is a very interesting write-up about the INS alignment process.

Doesn't the EGI INS equipped aircraft do full alignment at a much shorter time?

This is a very interesting write-up about the INS alignment process.

Doesn't the EGI INS equipped aircraft do full alignment at a much shorter time?

I wish. All of these aircraft are EGI equipped and it takes about 4 minutes to get the INS portion of the EGI to align. GPS is used to keep the INS from drifting via positional updates provided to the INS through a Kalman filter. (Most INS drift about .8 NM / Hour without it.)

Most of the newer jets have the same system, but you can taxi while it’s aligning, but the system gets more accurate as you taxi. This speeds up the ground ops portion. The other option is to a stored heading before shutdown. Upon the next start up you get a quick align in 2 ish minutes to a full and accurate system.

I hope this helps.

Kdubz

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our lot 20 hornet has GPS it’s just not embedded with INS. (Not EGI) but they can talk to each other. That’s why you use IFA instead of NAV, so that GPS will continue to update the INS. It just takes longer for the initial ground and cv alignments, compared to EGI equipped hornets. And I believe it doesn’t update itself as often.

Don’t know how much, if any of that is in the sim yet, but lot 20 hornets do have GPS

Our lot 20 hornet has GPS it’s just not embedded with INS. (Not EGI) but they can talk to each other. That’s why you use IFA instead of NAV, so that GPS will continue to update the INS. It just takes longer for the initial ground and cv alignments, compared to EGI equipped hornets. And I believe it doesn’t update itself as often.

 

Don’t know how much, if any of that is in the sim yet, but lot 20 hornets do have GPS

so if they "talk" to each other, thats basically EGI.

EGI is literally having a GPS that can in some way communicate, and even update / correct INS systems vs being a totally separate system on the aircraft

what you describe with IFA function is exactly that or when utilization post IFA, the AINS. Super Hornets still have the same setup with the NAV panel as in the legacy ( there is no EGI option on the panel), and not tell me those dont have EGI either.

Its simply a question of how advanced such functions are, There are older and newer more advanced EGI , no doubt about it.

Just fyi, Wags said that one of the next things coming for the Hornet is a detailed simulation of the INS/GPS system.

so if they "talk" to each other, thats basically EGI.

 

 

EGI is literally having a GPS that can in some way communicate, and even update / correct INS systems vs being a totally separate system on the aircraft

The NATOPS specifically references INS + GPS and EGI not being the same thing.

The AN/ASN-130A (aircraft 161353 THRU 163175 BEFORE AFC 231, 231 PT2, or 231 PT3), the AN/ASN-139 (aircraft 163427 THRU 164912 BEFORE AFC 175 PT2), the Embedded GPS/INS (EGI) (aircraft 161925 THRU 163175 AFTER AFC 231, 231 PT2, or 231 PT3), or the INS + GPS (aircraft 164945 AND UP, 163427 THRU 164912 AFTER AFC 175 PT2) inertial navigation system is a self-contained, fully automatic dead reckoning navigation system.

The NATOPS specifically references INS + GPS and EGI not being the same thing.

yes i have the natops, Its semantics then for 2 different systems that do the same thing.

then why is it not the same if they both do the same thing, whats the practical difference?. with EGI the whole point is to have a module that integrates both INS and a GPS module, allowing communicates with INS, resulting corrections and updates, and yet thats what INS+GPS system does in the Hornet.

A truly separate INS and GPS sysstm it does not communicate with INS, or update position to fix INS drift.

then why is it not the same if they both do the same thing, whats the practical difference?.

I have no idea. You could be right, but the manual suggests there is a difference. It doesn't mean there isn't one just because a difference isn't immediately apparent.

About this topic, what is the counter that we have in the middle of the moving map display. It never reach zero... but stop at 0.5 usually...

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Typically an EGI will present a blended nav solution. Where separate INS + GPS may integrate positional checks and INS corrections using gps input. So they are different if you want to get nerdy about it. EGI gives you a better ANP (Actual Navigation Performance) due to the blended solution. INS + GPS you would be corrected INS position, but living with the accuracy of the INS or the GPS for navigation.