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Su 27 question


Aries101

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In relation to landing the Su-27...

 

IMO the biggest difficulty is that, if you fly at 8-10º AoA towards the head of the runway, the IRST sensor at the plane's nose obstruct your view of the head of the runway. To overcome this you have to come with smaller AoA (higher speed) until you're so close to the runway that you don't need visual contact to its head anymore, then you increase AoA and reduce speed by slowly flaring...

Yes, you're right. It tends not to bother me much but, if you want to do it by the numbers, according to the manual, you:

 

  • Lower you landing gear and flaps before turning final
     
     
  • Make the turn onto final at 350 km/hr with a bank angle not exceeding 45°
     
     
  • Slowly reduce speed so that you reach the outer marker between 310-320 km/hr with a sink rate of between 5-3 m/s
     
     
  • Reach the inner marker at 290-300 km/hr and an altitude of 60 m.
     
     
  • At the threshold, reduce speed to 260-270 km/hr depending on landing weight.
     
     
  • At an height of 8-10 m begin the flare, the degree of pull on the stick depending on how quickly the aircraft is approaching the ground
     
     
  • At an height of no more than 1 meter, smoothly pull the throttle back to idle and continue to pull back on the stick as you land to create a landing angle of 10-12°

 

Done this way, you spend the time from the outer marker until you're crossing the threshold with an AoA of 7-8° which, in this configuration, lets you easily see over your nose and keep aligned with the runway until the flare.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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^^good to read this again, I didn't even remember the manual...

I had recorded this early this morning before rereading the manual. This is more or less how it should work. Someday I'll do one that's more exact. There's no outer marker for this approach into Sochi but I figure 310 k/h at 4.2 km distance is about right.

 

 

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Cool... One question: do you wheelbrake while rolling on the runway aerobraking with nose high? I ask this because I didn't until recently (I thought it would lower my nose too early), but now I'm doing it, while pulling back the stick to keep nose high as long as possible, and I have the impression it's being more effective.

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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Cool... One question: do you wheelbrake while rolling on the runway aerobraking with nose high? I ask this because I didn't until recently (I thought it would lower my nose too early), but now I'm doing it, while pulling back the stick to keep nose high as long as possible, and I have the impression it's being more effective.

I never touch the brakes until I need to. I find braking with 3 wheels on the ground squirrelly enough without attempting it with only two. Besides, that defeats the purpose of aerobraking which is to save wear and tear on your brakes.

 

In addition to aerobraking, I'll also sometimes raise the speed brake at touchdown (if I think of it). Its addition seems to help me slow a bit quicker or seems to. This is nothing I've ever tested empirically, however.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Min ground roll landing procedures are different - higher AoA, lower glideslope, very good touch-down point control. Lower nose to ground immediately after touch down and begin maximum braking. You can use the airbrake as well of course, but it won't be that effective at slow speed.

 

If your landing technique includes floating/balooning etc, you need to address your flare, approach speed or whatever else - ie. you're doing it wrong :)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Plus the fact that, IIRC was addressed somewhere else on these forums, the Soviet jets do not have Anti-Skid, which means when you depress the brake pedals, the brakes lock up, leading to tyre blowouts

FENRIR



 

 

 

 

No KC-10 in DCS? Thank goodness for small miracles!

 

Intel i5 4690K OC to 4.0, Corsair CX850M PSU, 16GB Patriot Viper @ 1866MHz, EVGA GTX 1060 SC, Samsung EVO 250GB SSD, Saitek X-55, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, Delanclip

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Min ground roll landing procedures are different - higher AoA, lower glideslope, very good touch-down point control. Lower nose to ground immediately after touch down and begin maximum braking. You can use the airbrake as well of course, but it won't be that effective at slow speed.

 

If your landing technique includes floating/balooning etc, you need to address your flare, approach speed or whatever else - ie. you're doing it wrong :)

 

 

My minimum roll procedure is very different:

 

  1. Jettison all stores
  2. Dump fuel to have less than 200 kg at touchdown
  3. Check flaps down, airbrake optional
  4. Approximately 2 deg AoA
  5. Touchdown
  6. Rudder to keep aligned with runway
  7. Stop
  8. Lower gear
  9. Engine shutdown
  10. Wait for turbine stop
  11. Request Repair

 

It gives a really excellent over nose view of the runway on approach. ;)

 

 

The repair time does include a bit extra for the ground crew to cuss you out for grinding off the below engine missile rails though.

 

 

Seriously though, GGTharos is right that it's really all about proper technique. The Soviet AFM jets can all land on the shortest runways in the Black Sea map (1800 m?) in icy conditions, no headwind, no chute, and still have something like 400m of spare runway even if the landing is bobbled a bit.

Callsign "Auger". It could mean to predict the future or a tool for boring large holes.

 

I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane.

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Plus the fact that, IIRC was addressed somewhere else on these forums, the Soviet jets do not have Anti-Skid, which means when you depress the brake pedals, the brakes lock up, leading to tyre blowouts

 

Soviet jets do have anti-skid.

JJ

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  • 2 months later...
In relation to landing the Su-27...

 

IMO the biggest difficulty is that, if you fly at 8-10º AoA towards the head of the runway, the IRST sensor at the plane's nose obstruct your view of the head of the runway. To overcome this you have to come with smaller AoA (higher speed) until you're so close to the runway that you don't need visual contact to its head anymore, then you increase AoA and reduce speed by slowly flaring...

 

Is it just me or something has changed in the last updates? I might be wrong, but I think I used to get 8-10º AoA around 240 km/h (aircraft very light, no missiles and about 2000 kg fuel), now I guess I get that AoA around 280 km/h... Anyone else notice any difference?

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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