Yet another warthog slew upgrade

Though I received a force sensor from the first batch Delta made, I didn't get a chance to install it till yesterday. Instructions were laid out nicely and ran into no problems with the installation or calibration procedures. Control is greatly improved over the original.

Thanks, Delta!

Hi All,

I am patiently waiting for my analog thumbstick. In the meantime....

Can any users tell me which of the Circular front plate or the Square front plate they installed and why ?

Have you found any limitations with one or the other?

Thanks.

First of all, thank you very much for this mod, it's so much better than that original nipple...

Also, I'm problably doing everything wrong with the calibration but it seems to work for me...:

1. I use the Thrustmaster utility, mostly to set the deadzone with the text file (does that work? Don't know, haven't tested it thoroughly)

The subsequent test in the windows utility looks a bit ragged/low resolution...

2. I use the windows utility to calibrate again, this seems to improve resolution to my eyes (does it keep the previously set deadzone? Is it just a placebo? Again, don't know, haven't tested it thoroughly).

However, after this I'm pleased how it feels...

First of all, thank you very much for this mod, it's so much better than that original nipple...

 

Also, I'm problably doing everything wrong with the calibration but it seems to work for me...:

 

1. I use the Thrustmaster utility, mostly to set the deadzone with the text file (does that work? Don't know, haven't tested it thoroughly)

The subsequent test in the windows utility looks a bit ragged/low resolution...

 

2. I use the windows utility to calibrate again, this seems to improve resolution to my eyes (does it keep the previously set deadzone? Is it just a placebo? Again, don't know, haven't tested it thoroughly).

However, after this I'm pleased how it feels...

Thanks for that information,

Calibration in the windows tool after the Thrustmaster tool should do the basically same thing as resetting to default values - so it's possible that that did help with smoothness of the control. The deadzone from the Thrustmaster tool won't be changed by the windows tool - but I am still not 100% myself if changing the deadzone makes a difference on this sensor. I'm fairly sure it did on the force sensor version but as you say it could be a bit of a placebo.

I'm going to look into this possible issue with resolution or “smoothness” a few people seem to be having, but I’m glad to hear you’re happy with it now :)

If anyone else is having similar issues with "sticking" or not smooth movement please let me know.

These look great, and I'm eager to get my hands on one! Is July still a good ETA for when you'll reopen ordering?

This last week end i had finally the time to mount the sensor and try it....and trust me guys it is really awesome....night and day

It is really worth it to buy it... can't recommend more...

I bought the analog one due money restraints and due to the fact that the force sensor doesn't have a push button...but i am really happy as well

Looks like mines at the Post Office awaiting collection.

Can any users tell me which of the Circular front plate or the Square front plate they installed and why ?

 

Have you found any limitations with one or the other?

 

I too am interested in what other users are recommending - Circular or Square??

Fitted nicely. Initially wouldn't calibrate so I had to do a firmware update. works extremely well. Thanks Delta.

Hi, having some issues with the analog thumbstick upgrade. Install was very easy, thanks to the very clear instructions.

However, I followed the initial setup and calibration instructions but I cannot get the thumbstick output to be centered.

I'm using the VKB joystick tester tool, which shows that while calibration using the tool you supplied has a very slight effect, the X axis is always about +10% to +20% above centerline and the X output reaches full scale deflection in either direction well before the stick runs out of X axis physical travel in either direction.

The Y axis is consistently off center as well and I am unable to fix it through calibrating with the tool you supplied. The Y axis stubbornly sits at about -90% output when it is physically centered. Moving it a minuscule fraction +Y brings the output to center, and at about +50% physical Y travel it shows full scale deflection +Y in the VKB utility.

Here's what I've tried to fix it:

- checked I'm on latest throttle firmware (v23) using TM WH tools

- unplugged all other USB game controllers (VKB stick, button panels, etc)

- used "Reset to Default" under the Windows USB Game Controllers menu app ("Apply" was greyed out, but I hit "Ok")

- uninstalled the device and drivers, reset the throttle to bootloader mode and reinstalled firmware and TM WH device drivers

I've tried recalibrating after each of these steps, restarting my computer before and after.

Pulling my hair out, as the unit is quite clearly well made and I am really keen on a better slew capability. Mechanically, the unit feels fine with smooth action throughout its range of motion.

Absolutely out of ideas and desperately need help.

Thanks!

Hi, having some issues with the analog thumbstick upgrade.

 

Absolutely out of ideas and desperately need help.

 

Thanks!

Hi zbmtwo, I have sent you a PM.

Hopefully we will be able to get this fixed soon :)

Hopefully we will be able to get this fixed soon :)

When you get this sorted can you post the resolution here so others who may have the same problem can benefit? Thanks.

Received and fitted my analog thumbstick upgrade today.

Very quick and easy and works flawlessly!

Can happily recommend this to anyone on the fence about getting one.

When you get this sorted can you post the resolution here so others who may have the same problem can benefit? Thanks.

It turned out it was an issue with the calibration; he was able run the calibration program on a different computer, which has solved the problem.

I'm not exactly sure why it would not calibrate on a specific computer, but hopefully that tip might help someone else getting it working.

Looking forward to receiving mine, do you know when you'll be shipping the preorders from earlier in June? (#1052)

I’ve been trying various foams to use to in the hole surrounding the ministick. I feel the stick is too easy to move and has a long throw (I did know this beforehand) and I wanted to give it stiffer feel. I decided on a heavy foam that is actually a cold starage tank insulation that I found at work. It feels fantastic now, still smooth but much more solid, all I needed to do change the axis settings. Well worth a look into.

Looking forward to receiving mine, do you know when you'll be shipping the preorders from earlier in June? (#1052)

Sorry for the slight delay on the early July batch - I'm about a week behind where I wanted to be on shipping them out due to some unforeseen circumstances

Good news is that the majority have now shipped (or will be after today:))

If yours has not yet been shipped then it will be by the end of next week, including all of the batch for mid July.

If anyone needs any more info about the status of their order, feel free to contact me directly.

Got mine Tues and installed last night. Haven't had chance to use it properly yet but calibration was spot-on first time.

I’ve been trying various foams to use to in the hole surrounding the ministick. I feel the stick is too easy to move and has a long throw (I did know this beforehand) and I wanted to give it stiffer feel. I decided on a heavy foam that is actually a cold starage tank insulation that I found at work. It feels fantastic now, still smooth but much more solid, all I needed to do change the axis settings. Well worth a look into.

Has anyone else found such an additional mod to be necessary?

Also, back to a previous question - what are people using and recommending - square or round hole?

Mr Mojo can you show some picture of what you did if possible , thanks.

Delta was nice enough to send me the Shapeways link for the force sensor holder, which I got printed. It was slightly too large to fit in the throttle hole so I had to sand down the sides, as well as the keyway for the force sensor (the little part that sticks out to prevent the sensor from rotating). I think this is because I got it printed on professional plastic instead of versatile plastic.

I also picked up a used Ultra 462 sensor on eBay. The solder lugs are clean, but it was obviously used and has tool marks on the locking ring. I suspect that the sensors are rejects and hence why they're selling for so cheap; my Y axis is off-center by about 3-5%. However, this is easy enough to correct in code by measuring the offset and applying a correction every time the axes are read.

I've also tested the sensor by itself running through the Arduino as well as through the throttle. You get more sensitivity and control through the Arduino, particularly around the center point when trying to do small movements, but it's minor enough that most people wouldn't notice unless they tried the two back to back. In particular, the throttle will apply a deadzone to the sensor even if you set the deadzone setting to 0x00 in the throttle calibration tool, and this is what makes it feel less sensitive around the center.

In general, the sensor works fine through the throttle for the A-10C and Falcon BMS. However, the Ka-50 has a particularly twitchy sensitivity for the Shkval, and I found that the extra sensitivity through the Arduino makes a pretty big difference in how well you can control it, especially since you can remove the deadzone in the Arduino.

I'm running into an issue though. I picked up an ATTiny85 (specifically the Adafruit Trinket 3.3V), but the throttle won't recognize any of the I2C messages it's receiving from it. I tried the same code on a Teensy 3.2 and it works just fine (just with the Wire library swapped out). I think this may be because the ATTiny85 doesn't have a true hardware I2C, rather relying on the internal USI (Universal Serial Interface) to emulate one, and this is somehow incompatible with the I2C master on the throttle. I don't have an oscilloscope or a logic analyzer though, so I can't be sure. All I can tell is that it looks like the ATTiny85 is sending over the bytes for the X and Y axes properly, but the throttle continually asks for the bytes whether I send something or nothing, which makes me think it's a timing issue despite the throttle controlling the I2C clock. I'd use the Teensy since that definitely works, but unfortunately it doesn't fit inside the throttle handle.

I'll have to play around with it some more before giving up. My backup option is to pick up the Adafruit Trinket M0, which uses the Atmel ATSAMD21 chip that, as far as I can tell, uses a true hardware I2C.

Received and fitted mine today, big improvement over the stock one. Had a small drift near the centre in game but another calibration fixed that. :D

I went for the round hole insert, haven't tried the square one yet.

Has anyone else found such an additional mod to be necessary?

Also, back to a previous question - what are people using and recommending - square or round hole?

I own the analogue stick as well and the feeling is comparable with the one of the Cougar for the one who owned it as well. For me the force to move it is reasonably good and the only idea I had was to use something to seal the ministick's inside. But I have a dust cover for my Hotas so it might not be necessary. The stucking which was reported here and there was not existant for me slewing the radar of the Hornet so my problem at the TGP most probably was auto locking of targets/objects.

I used the square hole and it feels right for me. Again, it is a huge improvement over the standard slew.

Xoxen

Delta was nice enough to send me the Shapeways link for the force sensor holder, which I got printed. It was slightly too large to fit in the throttle hole so I had to sand down the sides, as well as the keyway for the force sensor (the little part that sticks out to prevent the sensor from rotating). I think this is because I got it printed on professional plastic instead of versatile plastic.

 

I also picked up a used Ultra 462 sensor on eBay. The solder lugs are clean, but it was obviously used and has tool marks on the locking ring. I suspect that the sensors are rejects and hence why they're selling for so cheap; my Y axis is off-center by about 3-5%. However, this is easy enough to correct in code by measuring the offset and applying a correction every time the axes are read.

 

I've also tested the sensor by itself running through the Arduino as well as through the throttle. You get more sensitivity and control through the Arduino, particularly around the center point when trying to do small movements, but it's minor enough that most people wouldn't notice unless they tried the two back to back. In particular, the throttle will apply a deadzone to the sensor even if you set the deadzone setting to 0x00 in the throttle calibration tool, and this is what makes it feel less sensitive around the center.

 

In general, the sensor works fine through the throttle for the A-10C and Falcon BMS. However, the Ka-50 has a particularly twitchy sensitivity for the Shkval, and I found that the extra sensitivity through the Arduino makes a pretty big difference in how well you can control it, especially since you can remove the deadzone in the Arduino.

 

I'm running into an issue though. I picked up an ATTiny85 (specifically the Adafruit Trinket 3.3V), but the throttle won't recognize any of the I2C messages it's receiving from it. I tried the same code on a Teensy 3.2 and it works just fine (just with the Wire library swapped out). I think this may be because the ATTiny85 doesn't have a true hardware I2C, rather relying on the internal USI (Universal Serial Interface) to emulate one, and this is somehow incompatible with the I2C master on the throttle. I don't have an oscilloscope or a logic analyzer though, so I can't be sure. All I can tell is that it looks like the ATTiny85 is sending over the bytes for the X and Y axes properly, but the throttle continually asks for the bytes whether I send something or nothing, which makes me think it's a timing issue despite the throttle controlling the I2C clock. I'd use the Teensy since that definitely works, but unfortunately it doesn't fit inside the throttle handle.

 

I'll have to play around with it some more before giving up. My backup option is to pick up the Adafruit Trinket M0, which uses the Atmel ATSAMD21 chip that, as far as I can tell, uses a true hardware I2C.

Nice! Just wanted to touch on a few points you brought up, in case it can be helpful so someone.

Yes the plastic parts were all designed for the Shapeways strong and flexible, and I tweaked the dimensions to get a good fit so I guess the professional plastic has slight different tolerances and shrinkages.

I also suspect they might be some sort of reject sensors or something - but the first 20 or so I bought were all in a brand new factory sealed box, so I don't know for sure.

Out of 33 units I built, I would say about half were bang on centre, 25% maybe 2-3% off and the rest around 5% off - but that could also be tolerance in the ADC. I calibrated each sensor to the specific adapter board with offsets that are then stored in EEPROM on the chip, and corrected on each reading as you said.

I stared out trying to use an ATtiny85, but also ran into issues with the I2C. I thinks it’s related to the throttle implementation not actually being fully correct and missing off stop conditions, so the USI hardware just get confused. I’m using the ATtiny841 now, which has a really unique I2C slave hardware design, as far as I know there are very few other chips that have it, but for me it has always worked really well on multiple projects.

The main limitation of this is that the actual throttle implementation is very limited in resolution, update rate and dead zone. It makes using a separate USB device tempting but my aim was to make it as plug and play as possible so the only option was to use the existing throttle hardware. I still think it’s very sufficient for a slew sensor :)

Has anyone else found such an additional mod to be necessary?

Also, back to a previous question - what are people using and recommending - square or round hole?

I never said it was necessary, I just prefer the new slew with the extra resistance.

And I use the square one - for no particular reason