Another great AC

(IMHO)

After putting some time in with this plane, both on MP and SP I have to say that it's pretty impressive. Listening to all of the banter on TS, it would seem that I am in good company when I say that this plane is going to have a major impact on WWII gameplay.

I put down 2 ME 109's in a row this morning, and had no problems keeping up and turning into my enemy. This plane is more along the lines of what I expected from the P-51 initially. This was the general consensus with the people I encountered in the servers today too.

So I can say with confidence that ED has done a very good job on this module. Thanks so much guys. This just keeps getting better and better with every release.

I think that a lot of people are going to mothball their P-51's after they climb into this plane. I for one stopped using it for air to air a while back.

Again.....Thanks ED!!!!!:pilotfly:

When bombers arrive p-51s will be in a league of there own :D

It'll be interesting to see the effect the Spitfire has on the DCS WWII community. For a long time the 109's have been able to out turn anything they faced ... but the Spitfire is going to win that game. Which is not to say that the 109 pilots don't have cards they can play: the 109 is substantially faster, and climbs a bit better than the Spitfire. But playing to those advantages requires an entirely different play style to the way most people seem to have been using the 109 in DCS. Should be really interesting :-)

One does have to feel a bit sorry for the P-51. A plane whose best attributes were range, high-altitude performance and speed. Range rarely matters in DCS, and not many battles take place at high-altitude, and even then the 109 is also very good up high. As for speed, the P-51 was a fast plane, faster than most opposition it faced. Unfortunately some of the exceptions to that were the late war FW-190 D9 (down low) and the Bf 109K4 (at most altitudes). It has no single (useful) attribute where it clearly excels over both the FW-190 and the 109.

Hey, not so fast in writing off the Mustang!

The Spitfire has been quite impressive and will force the German fighters off of their comfort zone they've been enjoying for so long. It's no longer a matter of "turn and point the plane until you win" like it has been, since the Spitfire can play that game, too. The 109 jockeys can no longer rely on the zoom climb to get out of trouble. Even though it's still a bit better than the Spitfire in this regime, the Spitfire seems to be able to hang in just fine for quite a while, certainly long enough to make the kill, and that's what matters. I'm really enjoying it so far! I'll probably switch back and forth between the two, depending on my mood, and it's awesome to be able to throw a British wrench into the much-abused tactics we've seen in the MP servers! The Spitfire seems to be a great equalizer so far.

That said, you'll never pry me from my Mustang for long! Compared to the Spitfire, the Mustang still has a few traits that make it more pilot friendly:

1. Gunsight. The Spitfire's fixed sight really limits it unless it's flown by a very competent gunner. Short of deflection shooting mastery, the rest of us will have to rely on just getting in close enough so that deflection doesn't matter and blaze away. Therefore, the Mustang's engagement parameters are far wider for most pilots than it is for the Spitfire, since it can engage at a broad selection of ranges to target and very high angles-off.

2. Ammo load. The Mustang has the edge here, too, among all current WWII fighters we have. The Spitfire has a comparatively limited firing time. This, combined with the less accurate gun sight, means that you need to make every damn shot count. For most people, this will require lots of practice (but hey, that's why we like DCS, anyway.)

3. Visibility. Obviously the bubble canopy and lack of target-obstructing framework up front make the view out of the Mustang divine compared to the Spit, but so far I've had a bitch of a time looking over the nose of the Spitfire and, because of this, have a mad hard time shooting a target while pulling lead on it. The target just disappears under the nose and you can't track him until you slide back into the pocket, and pray that he's still on the same vector. It's frustrating to lose sight of that tiny speck in the distance as it transitions behind a canopy frame, and worse to have it blocked by your nose while you're trying to jab him with your 20mm's precious few rounds in a high-G tracking shot or, gods help you, a snapshot.

4. Stability while firing. The Mustang is a fantastic gun platform. I didn't appreciate this until I flew the Bf-109 a few weeks ago and just today, the Spitfire. Both the Kurfurst and Mk. IX are extremely agile planes, but I think that some of their agility comes at the cost of stability, especially while firing or lining up a shot. You'll notice, especially while lining up a head-on shot against a FW-190 or whatnot, that the gunsight in the Spit flails about somewhat as you adjust your attitude. Since landing hits with the Mk II gunsight is hard enough and ammo is precious in the Spit, having your GBL get squirrely while lining up your shot and trying to aim precisely to make a kill adds a new level of challenge. Maybe I can train up so it doesn't matter so much, but gunnery feels far more solid in the P-51.

5. Firepower. I didn't think I'd say this, but I prefer the Mustang's six 50's to the Spit's four 303's and two cannon. I had presumed that the blast from the cannons would offset the light dusting that the 303's would provide, but so far this hasn't been the case in my tests. In my gunnery training mission, I can easily splash four Bf-109's with ammo to spare in my Mustang, whereas with the Spit I typically kill two, three at most before running dry. There may be other reasons for this (more training in the Mustang, better gunsight, more stability, absurd AI damage modeling, etc.) but my debriefings show that I'm scoring plenty of hits with those 303's and even the 20's, but the damn German fighters just won't die. We'll deal with what we have, but it would be pretty snazzy to load an E-type wing with those 50 cal's in 'em! Then, the Spit would be on par with the Dora in terms of striking power.

6. Speed and dive potential. Not much to be said here. Even if we still can't turn with the 109's, if we stick to our strong suits and the Mustang can succeed, with training of course.

7. Stronger airframe. I've already ripped my wings off several times chasing a 109 in a spiraling dive, being used to the stresses that the Mustang can withstand, I'll need to slow my roll a bit and adjust. However, the Mustang seems to hold together better under high-G turns and extremely fast dives. American Steel, baby!

8. More resilient engine. I realize that the two carry a nearly identical engine, so maybe it has more to do with the cooling systems than the engine itself. However, I've ended more missions in the Spit due to a blown engine than any other reason, where I'm using similar power and RPM settings to what I fight my Mustang at. Perhaps this is a Beta release issue, perhaps intentional, but watch that coolant heat in your Spitfire! You can't abuse the poor Merlin in the Spit like you can in the P-51.

9. Rear warning radar. Unfortunately, by the time this thing sounds, you're pretty much dead already, but it's better than nothing and at least you can look cool as you die.

Ideally, the Spitfire/Mustang combo could really mix up some outstanding teamwork options, and I can't wait to try them once my client quits crashing every 20 minutes.

I really like the Mustang as well, and I do think it's a great plane and you can be successful in it if you use it right. That said I stand by my statement ...

1. The 190 also has a gyroscopic gunsight. No clear advantage for the P-51. Not that I use the gyro sight on either mind, as I've got used to guessing lead :-)

2. The 190 also has a very good ammo load capable of destroying lots of enemies. No clear advantage for P-51.

3. The 190 also has very good visibility.

4. The 190 is also a great firing platform.

5. Whether the P-51 has better firepower than the Spit is debatable, personally I'm finding the cannon in the Spit to be more effective. However I'd still give the win to the 190 for firepower, with those close to centreline cannons and heavy MGs with tonnes of ammo.

6. The 190 is also an excellent diver, and is crazy fast at low altitude.

7. The 190 also loves speed, and handles beautifully at high speeds.

8. I would argue the WEP on the German planes is better, it certainly lasts longer. I've also found it less likely to cook the engines in one of the German planes than the P-51.

9. Okay, that is a unique advantage .. but as you say, not such a useful one :-)

The P-51 still has some advantages over the Spitfire, and you've listed most of them. But everything the P-51 can do one of the two German plane can do it just as well or better.

The comparison of the Mustang to the German fighters has been done to death, but, as you say, the 190 is a great match for it. They're so close, it's down to the pilot and situation most of the time.

I was comparing the Mustang to the Spitfire, though, in case any Allied pilots are thinking of ditching the P-51. The Spitfire can tangle with the 109 closely enough to make them sweat, but I was trying to make a point that it's an over hasty move to toss aside the Mustang without considering the points above.