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Old 12-05-2017, 12:09 AM   #161
VampireNZ
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Originally Posted by Top Jockey View Post
I'm not sure but I recall reading somewhere that, a 6 Phoenix missile configuration wasn't allowed for carrier landing due to maximum landing weight restrictions.

So I believe that in case of takeoff with 6 of these missiles, the crew would have to fire 2 of them.
That is correct. I.A.W info I have read, a full load of 6 Phoenix missiles would only leave you enough fuel for 2 approaches to the carrier max which was unacceptable. So 4 was the max for Carrier based aircraft - however usually it was 2x Aim-9, 2x Sparrow and 2x Phoenix, so all the engagement envelopes of each missile 'generally' overlapped the whole way from Phoenix to gun range.
As one pilot mentioned you would be in a rather sticky situation with only 4 Phoenix missiles and a gun WVR fighting....if it got that close to start with.

I highly recommend this book if you are interested in the Tomcat also...

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Old 12-05-2017, 08:40 AM   #162
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I highly recommend this book if you are interested in the Tomcat also...

Does anyone have this book in PDF?
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:57 PM   #163
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Don't forget about Crazy Bob's CVW-11 in the 80s. He made his F-14s do regular 6-0-2 missions. Though from what I can tell he was the only one that ever forced that in training. Remember anything is allowed with command override.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:07 PM   #164
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Ok simple question : WHEN WILL THE BIRD BE AIRBORNE ? May be my grandson will be able to use it ? Or still hope for 2017 ?
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:22 PM   #165
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I can also recommend Dave “Bio” Baraneks Book “Tomcat Days” it’s pretty interesting for those who want to have a little deeper look into the top gun training back in those days.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:07 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
That is correct. I.A.W info I have read, a full load of 6 Phoenix missiles would only leave you enough fuel for 2 approaches to the carrier max which was unacceptable. So 4 was the max for Carrier based aircraft - however usually it was 2x Aim-9, 2x Sparrow and 2x Phoenix, so all the engagement envelopes of each missile 'generally' overlapped the whole way from Phoenix to gun range.
As one pilot mentioned you would be in a rather sticky situation with only 4 Phoenix missiles and a gun WVR fighting....if it got that close to start with.

I highly recommend this book if you are interested in the Tomcat also...

Thank you, which parts does it emphasizes more ?

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I can also recommend Dave “Bio” Baraneks Book “Tomcat Days” it’s pretty interesting for those who want to have a little deeper look into the top gun training back in those days.
I believe those are 2 outstanding books.

I also have another 2 about the Tomcat, by chance were sent by a relative which lives in the U.S.

The parts about the TOPGUN training should also be interesting.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:19 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
That is correct. I.A.W info I have read, a full load of 6 Phoenix missiles would only leave you enough fuel for 2 approaches to the carrier max which was unacceptable. So 4 was the max for Carrier based aircraft - however usually it was 2x Aim-9, 2x Sparrow and 2x Phoenix, so all the engagement envelopes of each missile 'generally' overlapped the whole way from Phoenix to gun range.
As one pilot mentioned you would be in a rather sticky situation with only 4 Phoenix missiles and a gun WVR fighting....if it got that close to start with.

I highly recommend this book if you are interested in the Tomcat also...

Okay, so this loadout is acceptable

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Old 12-05-2017, 10:59 PM   #168
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Okay, so this loadout is acceptable

I have a strong feeling that you would mostly see
4*aim7+4*aim9 or 6*aim7+2*aim9 while flying online.

Aim54 is not something you would shoot at a flighter target. (That is expecting to get shot).and no one will let you shoot down all the tankers and AWACS for the "other team" in TvT.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:15 PM   #169
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i see someone is not familiar with the sop here, which is "never learn from your mistakes"
here's a rundown of how its really going to go:

1. carry 6 phoenixes
2. ripple fire at rmax and whiff all of them
3. tab onto the forum
4. create new thread
5. report aim-54 as bugged and underperforming
6. repeat
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Last edited by probad; 12-05-2017 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:22 AM   #170
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2/2/2 (AIM-7/9/54 respectively) was the standard load out at sea. In the shop, we had ever even heard of anyone trying a 6-Phoenix loadout outside of factory testing. I'm sure it would take a lot of maintenance effort just to get it to work. The Phoenix is liquid cooled by Coolanol. The Coolanol lines out to the wing stations in many cases had never been used in the life of the aircraft, and to try to use them would involve having to flush them out and fix who knows how many leaks you'd come across, given how infrequently they'd been used, if ever. Coolanol was a pain in the ass (it cooled not only the Phoenix but the radar transmitter and high voltage power supplies as well). To get it working for six Phoenix missles would be a daunting task. I had heard while I was in VF-101 (the RAG) that they had tried carrying Phoenix on the wing stations a time or two there, but a sea-going squadron just didn't have the time or wherewithal to play with it. We did not carry Phoenix wing stations on the ship.

The next most common loadout was 4/4/0 and was used mainly in training involving lots of ACM if memory serves.
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