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Old 11-25-2018, 11:20 PM   #1
Essah
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Default JESTER brevity (question for Heatblur)

posting this in the hope that someone from Heatblur will take time to respond

Will JESTER be using appropriate BREVITY or is it up to whatever brevity knowledge the script writers and the voice acter has?

I heard "DIRT 12'o clock" in the latest life stream, and wondering if that is correct Brevity?
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:35 AM   #2
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Something that's often overlooked here is that the cut and dry brevity everyone loves so much in DCS isn't followed to the T in real life between aircraft in the same flight, and between two people in a private intercom inside the same plane it goes straight out of the window in most situations. Obviously you try to keep it brief, but what matters the most is that the pilot understand what you're saying rather than using the correct fancy word for something. For what it's worth, Dirt means a ground radar is painting you, while Nails mean an airborne radar is painting you.


Here are two examples, with intercom audio:





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Old 11-26-2018, 08:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell View Post
Something that's often overlooked here is that the cut and dry brevity everyone loves so much in DCS isn't followed to the T in real life between aircraft in the same flight, and between two people in a private intercom inside the same plane it goes straight out of the window in most situations. Obviously you try to keep it brief, but what matters the most is that the pilot understand what you're saying rather than using the correct fancy word for something. For what it's worth, Dirt means a ground radar is painting you, while Nails mean an airborne radar is painting you.


Here are two examples, with intercom audio:





+1.
Couldn't say it better.

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Old 11-26-2018, 03:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essah View Post
Will JESTER be using appropriate BREVITY or is it up to whatever brevity knowledge the script writers and the voice acter has?

I heard "DIRT 12'o clock" in the latest life stream, and wondering if that is correct Brevity?
I hope not. You see, while we in the armchair community like to pretend we are pilots so much, that we actually "act" like pilots more then the actual pilots do, in the Navy (i haven't interviewed enough AF pilots to confirm) at least (back in the day, i have no idea how things are now or in recent history), squadron "culture" seamed to have varied a bit, and team "lingo" even more. Inside the cockpit it was always left to the pilot and the RIO to work out the best way in which to communicate, which lead to a much more "flexible toward efficiency" culture.

But Lucas said it even better:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell View Post
Something that's often overlooked here is that the cut and dry brevity everyone loves so much in DCS isn't followed to the T in real life between aircraft in the same flight, and between two people in a private intercom inside the same plane it goes straight out of the window in most situations. Obviously you try to keep it brief, but what matters the most is that the pilot understand what you're saying rather than using the correct fancy word for something. For what it's worth, Dirt means a ground radar is painting you, while Nails mean an airborne radar is painting you.


Here are two examples, with intercom audio:





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Old 11-26-2018, 05:21 PM   #5
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Frankly speaking, I'm glad that Heatblur decided not to go down the 100% correct brevity route as it would feel very steril. Neither would it be realistic, I suppose.
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:11 PM   #6
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Having been AF aircrew, I would jump in and say correct brevity is VERY important, at least in the RNZAF. Once you start dropping in your own slang etc everyone gets confused and are not sure what they heard/what you mean and it just slows everything down.

New crew would even get schooled HARD on basic errors on the ICS like using ROGER when they should be saying AFFIRM etc. Captain would be like "is that a yes or no!?" Calling visual targets, radar calls from the tacrail - everything. We had one new RADAR operator that kept saying "Come left to heading 120"...no no no, it is TURN left.... If he couldn't sort it out he was gone..simple.

Saying that, simple comms between front/back seat of jet always has wiggle room. I don't know about the USAF, but there was not a lot of wiggle room while performing 'proper' work-related comms on the flightdeck.

Interesting the comment above mentioning how it would be too 'sterile', as that was exactly what we tried to achieve once we were 'on-task', or even during the approach and landing phase we had to maintain a 'sterile' comms environment on the ICS. But I guess that is too boring for a game...

Just the view of an 'armchair pilot'..with 6 years on a P-3 flightdeck. In any case I am sure the SME's helping HB have set them in the right direction regarding the level of 'sterility' usually experienced in the Tomcat.
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Last edited by VampireNZ; 11-26-2018 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 11-26-2018, 07:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
Having been AF aircrew, I would jump in and say correct brevity is VERY important, at least in the RNZAF. Once you start dropping in your own slang etc everyone gets confused and are not sure what they heard/what you mean and it just slows everything down.

New crew would even get schooled HARD on basic errors on the ICS like using ROGER when they should be saying AFFIRM etc. Captain would be like "is that a yes or no!?" Calling visual targets, radar calls from the tacrail - everything. We had one new RADAR operator that kept saying "Come left to heading 120"...no no no, it is TURN left.... If he couldn't sort it out he was gone..simple.

Saying that, simple comms between front/back seat of jet always has wiggle room. I don't know about the USAF, but there was not a lot of wiggle room while performing 'proper' work-related comms on the flightdeck.

Interesting the comment above mentioning how it would be too 'sterile', as that was exactly what we tried to achieve once we were 'on-task', or even during the approach and landing phase we had to maintain a 'sterile' comms environment on the ICS. But I guess that is too boring for a game...

Just the view of an 'armchair pilot'..with 6 years on a P-3 flightdeck. In any case I am sure the SME's helping HB have set them in the right direction regarding the level of 'sterility' usually experienced in the Tomcat.
+1

I listened to most of the videos. I think while there is always chat, where a brevity word should be used it always is and was in the video.
As Vampire said you got stamped on if you used an incorrect codeword, visual vs tally for instance. While I have only heard the Livestream it's good that Heatblur will be using correct brevity. I will say that there appears to be some differences in brevity as in nails vs spotted but maybe that's because I retired 16 years ago.

However at the end of the day we are here to have fun so if ya can't remember the codeword better to say something in plain English than nothing.

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Old 11-26-2018, 08:29 PM   #8
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Hi guys,


thank you for your input. JESTER will of course use correct brevity when appropriate and/or demanded according to the situation. "Dirt" btw is correct brevity, it means that you are being painted by a ground radar, usually a SAM. Likewise he will say "Singer" if he gets a SAM launch on RWR.

As for brevity vs non brevity, our RIO and Pilot SMEs gave very specific input that aircrews would develop a certain routine among themselves (on the intercomm), which again is different from aircraft to aircraft, etc, communication. What we are aiming for is to find a balance between proper brevity when the situation dictates it and the feeling to have a live crew member and someone whom you know on the other side.

Hope that answers your question. :-)

S!
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
Having been AF aircrew, I would jump in and say correct brevity is VERY important, at least in the RNZAF. Once you start dropping in your own slang etc everyone gets confused and are not sure what they heard/what you mean and it just slows everything down.
...
Interesting input. I guess it‘s a fine line in real life.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyTX View Post
+1
...at the end of the day we are here to have fun so if ya can't remember the codeword better to say something in plain English than nothing.

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This is more or less the approach that I use. I always try not to take any of it too seriously. It's only a video game, after all, and I'm no fighter pilot. As long as I understand what someone means then I couldn't really care if they got it right or not.
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