Hornet drops like a stone

Not sure what is going wrong, but when trying the VFR landing training mission, I just can’t do what the instructor asks.

Told to reduce the throttle to idle, and at 250 knots, drop the landing gear and put on full flaps. Whenever I do that, the plane just drops out of the sky, and no trimming or changing AOA recovers the situation. All I can do is put the throttle at 100% and try to recover some speed and height.

What is going on here? Is this normal?

Not sure what is going wrong, but when trying the VFR landing training mission, I just can’t do what the instructor asks.

Told to reduce the throttle to idle, and at 250 knots, drop the landing gear and put on full flaps. Whenever I do that, the plane just drops out of the sky, and no trimming or changing AOA recovers the situation. All I can do is put the throttle at 100% and try to recover some speed and height.

What is going on here? Is this normal?

ED/BST did a minor update on the gear/flaps down behavior in patch 5 (last week). This addressed the nose drop on flaps down which was clearly wrong.

That said, at 250 knots when you start lowering gear/flaps you MUST add appropriate amount of power to maintain the final landing airspeed at donut AOA. The amount of power you need to add depends on the jet weight fuel/stores, drag of the stores etc. Good luck.

The instructor meant to reduce the throttle only until you get below 250, after that increase the throttle to mantain the correct Angle of Attack, putting the Flight Path Marker inside the e-Bracket on the HUD. Try to use the trimmer hat rather than changing pitch with the stick.

Not sure what is going wrong, but when trying the VFR landing training mission, I just can’t do what the instructor asks.

Told to reduce the throttle to idle, and at 250 knots, drop the landing gear and put on full flaps. Whenever I do that, the plane just drops out of the sky, and no trimming or changing AOA recovers the situation. All I can do is put the throttle at 100% and try to recover some speed and height.

What is going on here? Is this normal?

Re: Dropping like a rock... Right now the F18 is more like a kidney stone that needs to pass. You have to set your afterburner detent in the key map control settings and switch that on or you burners wont light. Dont ask my why such an issue was created, more new play frustration. Hopefully new updates to the F18 will square things away :doh: The F18 feels like a F9 Panther when you throttle up, a very un-realistic slow engine response will send you swimming if you don't anticipate in advance speed requirements for certain maneuvers.

Re: Dropping like a rock... Right now the F18 is more like a kidney stone that needs to pass. You have to set your afterburner detent in the key map control settings and switch that on or you burners wont light. Dont ask my why such an issue was created, more new play frustration. Hopefully new updates to the F18 will square things away :doh: The F18 feels like a F9 Panther when you throttle up, a very un-realistic slow engine response will send you swimming if you don't anticipate in advance speed requirements for certain maneuvers.

You can Remove the Detent in the Special Options Menu.

It's Realistic to have them.

Not sure what is going wrong, but when trying the VFR landing training mission, I just can’t do what the instructor asks.

Told to reduce the throttle to idle, and at 250 knots, drop the landing gear and put on full flaps. Whenever I do that, the plane just drops out of the sky, and no trimming or changing AOA recovers the situation. All I can do is put the throttle at 100% and try to recover some speed and height.

What is going on here? Is this normal?

When dirty the Hornet needs nearly military power is stay on speed, as mentioned once at 250 and dropping gear and flaps in the same instance start a smoothe power up to control the thrust vector and start centering the e-bracket. Afterburner is not needed! This is a correctly modeled response or a nearly 95% correct based on numerous veteran Hornet driver comments and input.

The best way I found to do this, is to hold level flight and extend speed brake, when you hit 250 drop the flaps and gear, the speed brake will retract automatically. As the speed drops hold level and trim the E bracket for AOA, as you do this add power to hold level flight. Once the flight path is with the E bracket you are now controlling the climb and descent with the throttle only. Think of this more like a hover in the harrier with the amount of throttle needed and how the climb and descent works.

If this is done together and timed correctly you wont drop at all. Make sure you are under the 33,00 pounds. Heaps more info here

34,000 pounds is max landing weight. Between 33,000 and 34,000 lbs, you need full flaps. Below 33,000, you can land with half flaps (but at a higher airspeed).

With no stores and 2,000 lbs of fuel, your full-flaps approach speed will be 125 KIAS. For every thousand pounds of stores and fuel above that weight, add 2.5 KIAS to your final approach speed. (That said, this is a target speed...use your AOA indexer and E bracket to keep your jet at the proper landing attitude.)

Thanks for all your advice and help here, guys. I think I've got it working OK now. Unusual to have to put so much throttle on in a landing, but I guess that's the fun of learning different planes.

I think ED should have a rethink on what the instructor says in that VFR straight in landing training mission however.

The best way I found to do this, is to hold level flight and extend speed brake, when you hit 250 drop the flaps and gear, the speed brake will retract automatically. As the speed drops hold level and trim the E bracket for AOA, as you do this add power to hold level flight. Once the flight path is with the E bracket you are now controlling the climb and descent with the throttle only. Think of this more like a hover in the harrier with the amount of throttle needed and how the climb and descent works.

 

If this is done together and timed correctly you wont drop at all. Make sure you are under the 33,00 pounds. Heaps more info here

 

David, very useful video. Very helpful and detailed with just about the correct level of technical detail for the likes of me!

The best way I found to do this, is to hold level flight and extend speed brake, when you hit 250 drop the flaps and gear, the speed brake will retract automatically. As the speed drops hold level and trim the E bracket for AOA, as you do this add power to hold level flight. Once the flight path is with the E bracket you are now controlling the climb and descent with the throttle only. Think of this more like a hover in the harrier with the amount of throttle needed and how the climb and descent works.

This is pretty much exactly what works for me as well. I've found that instead of going from idle to suddenly adding power when necessary*, slowly increasing the throttle after lowering gear and flaps will be much smoother. You should quickly get a good feeling for the amount required.

*difficult because at that point airspeed will be dropping faster than the engine can spool up. Possibly due to engine response to throttle input not being as quick as it should be, but I have no experience to suggest whether it's correct or not.

In the words of " James T Kirk":

More power Scottie, we need more power.

That is what I think as I deploy gear and flaps lol.

If you get behind on power, it forces you to use a lot of throttle to catch it. Like others have said, practice. It's hard without actually feeling the forces in the jet, but the key is adding and removing power at the right time and in the right amounts. Anticipate corrections and perform them before the cause of the correction actually happens. In other words don't aim to correct the drop after it happens but rather anticipate and constantly work that throttle to make sure no drop ever occurs. Don't get behind on it, and you won't need all that power to get back.

practice, practice, practice, learn how throttle inputs make the jet respond and everything else will fall into place.

What do Hornet pilots usually use to a visual reference of power settings? I would think N1 but it's only visible if you have the ENG page up. Fuel Flow might be another, maybe someone has a gouge for FF settings?

For me it's kinda tough to feel the throttle because I use a gamepad throttle which is tough to make small corrections with, so I tend to look for lever position in the cockpit or N1/EPR settings.

What do Hornet pilots usually use to a visual reference of power settings? I would think N1 but it's only visible if you have the ENG page up. Fuel Flow might be another, maybe someone has a gouge for FF settings?

 

For me it's kinda tough to feel the throttle because I use a gamepad throttle which is tough to make small corrections with, so I tend to look for lever position in the cockpit or N1/EPR settings.

I couldn’t imagine using a game pad as throttle... FairPlay to you if you can land on a carrier with that.

Bite the bullet if you are able to and get yourself a half decent throttle setup.

I used to use an X-52 then got a TM Warthog and haven’t looked back, honestly a decent bit of kit.

But on the reference, for me it’s the Floght Path Marker and E Bracket, it’s the only thing I need to look at, especially in critical flight regimes.

Cheers

I've been using the game pad for years and I'm pretty damn good with it lol :) Honestly I have no choice since I travel for a living so it's what I have to work with. And forget about the carrier, the Huey or the Harrier to me are the ultimate challenge with throttle control that has about 1.5 inches of total movement.

That being said it's very limited in feedback for throttle because the movement is so small, so I try to back it up with other visual cues. On landing I agree watching your E bracket and FPM along with small corrections and trim are primary but I think where I'm wanting some gouge would be other flight regimes.

For example in the Harrier I know I can leave the throttle at 69% and know that is a stable loiter power setting as I orbit and work other controls, weapons etc. I"m still trying to find that sort of power setting in the Hornet, because it seems I look up and I'm pushing Mach 1 or else speed is creeping back a bit too much.

I've been using the game pad for years and I'm pretty damn good with it lol :) Honestly I have no choice since I travel for a living so it's what I have to work with. And forget about the carrier, the Huey or the Harrier to me are the ultimate challenge with throttle control that has about 1.5 inches of total movement.

 

That being said it's very limited in feedback for throttle because the movement is so small, so I try to back it up with other visual cues. On landing I agree watching your E bracket and FPM along with small corrections and trim are primary but I think where I'm wanting some gouge would be other flight regimes.

 

For example in the Harrier I know I can leave the throttle at 69% and know that is a stable loiter power setting as I orbit and work other controls, weapons etc. I"m still trying to find that sort of power setting in the Hornet, because it seems I look up and I'm pushing Mach 1 or else speed is creeping back a bit too much.

You don’t need to watch N1 or other engine gauges. Airspeed and aoa is where your eyes are. No need to complicate things.

I'm not the OP so I don't want this thread to drift into another area and yes it seems to me the hornet really gets behind the power curve easy with everything out and requires the engines to be kept spooled during flap and gear extension.

This one of the best training vids I have ever seen on USN landings! In the training command we taught a drill called the " landing attitude maneuver", which is very much like this, with the added entry section(break)!:)

This may be of some use also.

Lower the gear at 300 and set yourself up. 250 is BS and if you wait that long you will have way too much to do while, like you said, the jet is falling out of the sky.

Instructions are just that, instructions. Follow the instructions and then apply what you learn vs applying what you have read.

I have no problem at all lowering gear and flaps at 250 or just under.

I just gradually and smoothly add power to keep the attitude, and then gradually add in up trim to line up the AOA indicator with the E bracket.

I have no problem at all lowering gear and flaps at 250 or just under.

I just gradually and smoothly add power to keep the attitude, and then gradually add in up trim to line up the AOA indicator with the E bracket.

Same here, many of times I've touched down at 130 or 40 knts no issues

Yeah I've done it too but I like 300 because it affords me the luxury of power vs desperate last minute attempts to correct a stalling jet. More wiggle room is better than less IMHO.