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Old 08-08-2018, 02:01 PM   #21
draconus
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Things, you guys, say are indisputable but does stepping on the brakes and holding them on a straight line for prolonged time have any bad effect in game? (I didn't test it)

I was already trying to get the answer at #4:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...32&postcount=4
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:22 PM   #22
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Depends on speed, weight, ambient temperature, and duration. In general no, but if you come in hot and heavy and lock the brakes down, especially if it's hot, you've got a good chance of blowing one or more tires. It'll usually be the smaller nose gear first, but if there's a crosswind or you lurch to one side for some reason it would likely be whatever tire takes the brunt of it.

Set the temp about 40C, load near max and stand on the brakes asap you'll have a pretty good chance of seeing it, especially if you hit a bit hard. Unless it is broken. I blew many tires in my early days slamming down at 5ms and locking the brakes down before I realised 5ms is MAXIMUM and you're supposed to use the chute whenever possible.

-edit use Groomlake they have a really long runway. Run down it at a decent speed 300+, especially with a bit of weight. You should blow the tires way before you make it to the end, even with no braking.

-edit
In your linked post, yeah you can shut down from 200ish without problem usually. It's mostly when you start right after touchdown and are still going pretty fast.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
use Groomlake they have a really long runway. Run down it at a decent speed 300+, especially with a bit of weight. You should blow the tires way before you make it to the end, even with no braking.
I don't have NTTR yet and somehow I couldn't create my own mission with 25T so I was just abusing the brakes in training and instant missions. I tried my best but failed to break anything on a straight line.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:48 PM   #24
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Although most simmers do not care about things like landing weight, for the real Su-25 it is specified as follows:

It is absolutely forbidden to land the aircraft with total weight exceeding 13 300 kg, such landing is allowable only in emergency and all weapons that are jettison-able have to be jettisoned. The manual moreover states that landings with total weight more than 12 200 kg are allowable only in rare cases and can form only 3% of all landings, if this number is exceeded the aircraft has to undergo a major technical overhaul.

Of course it is possible to land Su-25 even at 19500 kg, but you are putting the gear assembly tires and airframe over their projected stress levels.

When landing with weight below 12200 kg, you can touch the runway safely at 230 - 240 km/h without problems and land on real wheels, aerobrake and than release chute without ever touching brakes, just like RL. DCS has a very good FM for Su-25 very close to published numbers.

People often moan about flight models, minor cockpit details or small systems errors, but operate their aircraft in a way, which would be unimaginable in RL.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:02 PM   #25
zhukov032186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
I don't have NTTR yet and somehow I couldn't create my own mission with 25T so I was just abusing the brakes in training and instant missions. I tried my best but failed to break anything on a straight line.
Interesting. Maybe something changed. Ok, I'll give it a go, too. Brb

-edit can confirm
It is there. Ambient temperature 42' and full fuel and four drop tanks, I started down the runway, no wind, no brakes. By the time I got to the end I was doing 500kmh, lifted off, popped into external view, and all I had left were little nubs with shreds of tire. All three wheels were gone.

This from cold start immediately running down the runway.
Reviewing the track. Right tire blew at 440kmh. Left tire at 445. Nose tire lasted to 462, but it was slightly off the ground half the time.
Reflew this part a bit more carefully, with tiny down trim to keep the nose on the ground. Left and right tires blew simulatenously (almost) at 440ish, nose tire again blew at almost exactly the same point, around 462.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
I don't have NTTR yet and somehow I couldn't create my own mission with 25T so I was just abusing the brakes in training and instant missions. I tried my best but failed to break anything on a straight line.
You can't select the T-bird in the ME to create a mission for yourself? Have you considered a repair?

At any rate, coming in heavy (96% of max gross weight) and standing on the brakes with the temp set to 104F (40C) causes no issues for me either. Track attached as well.




EDIT: Temp does make a difference as to when tires blow, though. Heavy aircraft accelerating run down the runway with temp at +40°C (104°F), all three blew within a second of each other at about 395 kph. Same runway with temp set to -12.4°C (9.7°F), I was at roughly 440 kph and increasing when I ran off the runway with intact tires.
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File Type: trk Braking -Hot & Heavy.trk (145.1 KB, 5 views)
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:08 PM   #27
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Well, I guess that settles that then. Braking, at least on the 25T must NOT cause overheat. Seems high speed does, though, unless it's the tiny movements causing it.

I dunno. The 25T is the oldest and least updated model, so that must not be in there. I wonder if the others do, though.
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File Type: trk high speed run.trk (1.43 MB, 5 views)
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
Well, I guess that settles that then. Braking, at least on the 25T must NOT cause overheat. Seems high speed does, though, unless it's the tiny movements causing it.

I dunno. The 25T is the oldest and least updated model, so that must not be in there. I wonder if the others do, though.
Not really seeing it in the Su-27 either. Hot day landing, heavy. About 360 kph down the chute but slowed to 310 kph at touchdown--I'm always conflicted about breaking this aircraft and couldn't talk myself into landing faster--but immediately stood on the brakes and held them there until the stop. No issues.
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File Type: trk Su-27 Landing_+45C & Heavy-No Blown Tires.trk (107.9 KB, 4 views)
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
...
It is there. Ambient temperature 42' and full fuel and four drop tanks, I started down the runway, no wind, no brakes. By the time I got to the end I was doing 500kmh, lifted off, popped into external view, and all I had left were little nubs with shreds of tire. All three wheels were gone...

Guys... really? Come on. Take your car down a road a 500kph and see what happens. That has nothing to do with weight or braking or temperature, you are twice as fast as what they are designed for and literally blowing them apart. You should never be on the runway over 300kph. You shouldn't really even have your gear down bellow 350kph, and I'm pretty sure (it's been a while since I tested it) over 450kph you are going to damage the gear just from having them down in flight.


The brakes on the SU-25 are pathetic. You could almost brake faster by sticking your arm out the window. You cannot lock the wheels unless you are basically still flying and only have like 500kg on the runway. I don't know if brake temperature and failure is modeled in the game (I doubt it is), but in the last maybe 50hr or more of flying the 25 and 25T I have not blown a tire. I do not use the drag chutes unless it's a short runway, I apply brakes as soon as I lower the nose wheel, and I do not stop braking until I am at a safe taxi speed. Basically on every landing brakes come on around 230-250kph and are on down to 30-40kph.


The only way you are going to blow tires on the su-25 are from slamming it on the runway or from sliding. If you slam the rudder to one side you will slide the nose wheel (it turns instantly). If you want to make a sharp turn, you have to smoothly and slowly increase the nose wheel angle, and the same goes for stopping a turn.


The maximum landing weight is there for safety, but does not mean the plane can't be landed above that weight. When a maximum landing weight is established, it is done so for average pilot skill and allowing for difficult conditions. If you put the plane down gently, you will not damage it.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:05 PM   #30
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Not really seeing it in the Su-27 either. Hot day landing, heavy. About 360 kph down the chute but slowed to 310 kph at touchdown--I'm always conflicted about breaking this aircraft and couldn't talk myself into landing faster--but immediately stood on the brakes and held them there until the stop. No issues.

SU-27 brakes are much better than the 25, but unless it's a slippery runway I don't think you'll ever lock them. I have no problem using full brakes, though I have less experience in the 27 than the 25. Another thing to consider is the 27 is almost exactly twice the weight of the 25A (max gross) and 13500kg heavier than the 25T. So even if blowing tires due to breaking were a thing on the 27, it has both higher weight and much much stronger brakes (stopping more weight much faster).
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