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one of Nick Grey's answers puzzles me


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when the community had the possibilty to ask Nick Grey some questions, mine was as follows:

 

Q. And what makes me personally really sceptical that the stickforces are implemented correctly, is the fact, that once you lose 1 elevator, you all of a sudden can turn much tighter at higher speeds, which for me at least doesnt make any sense. – Birdstrike

 

before this question i was asking whether they really think that the stickforces are implemented correctly....anyway, the part that still confuses me is the bold one i highlighted, and Nick Grey's answer:

 

A. If you lose an elevator then less resistance, 50% to be exact means full deflection becomes possible.

 

the link to the interview:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207133

 

 

now, of course, its quite logical, that once u lose an elevator, u only have half of the force to overcome to keep the same deflection of the elevator....and therefore u can deflect it twice as much....but why should this result in turning tighter? u just lost 50% of the aerodynamic surface which makes turning at all possible to begin with....so if at all, it should be turning the same at best, at high and medium speeds, and at lower speeds definitely worse. now if i have an error in my thinking, please enlighten me....

 

and if for whatever reason, which i still cant comprehend, Nick Grey is really correct with his claim, then i wonder about the following:

 

if smaller control surfaces which are deflected more than taller ones deflected less, really mean more aerodynamic effect, i wonder why the 109 rudder is that ineffective...and i also wonder, why the 109 pilot cannot deflect the relatively small rudder more, than lets say the P51 pilot, which has definitely a much bigger rudder.....

 

Yo-Yo?


Edited by birdstrike
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109 elevator is midsection of rudder, if you lose right elevator side it is very clear that turning right is faster, the aero layer is not divided, disturbed by any control surface than the rudder, better/more flow ..my 1 cent :)

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i5 5600, 1050ti, 16 GVram, win10 , TM W hotas&rudder, waiting for 1060/1070 price fall or a new gpu family..f*&9 miners :)

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  • ED Team

The answer is obvious if you remember, that the whole surface of the stabilizer INCLUDING the elevator forms so called neutral point of the aircraft. As this area decreased, the plane reduces its stability, so having twice in deflection of the 1/2 elevator you can obtain greater AoA.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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ok if losing 1 elevator really means that the aircraft becomes unstable around the pitch axis then it makes sense!

considering the drastic increase of pitch authority when losing 1 elevator, im confused as to why the german engineers didnt create the aircraft unstable in the first place, considering the heavy stickforces and the problems that come with it...easy solution, just make smaller elevators? :)


Edited by birdstrike
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  • ED Team
ok if losing 1 elevator really means that the aircraft becomes unstable around the pitch axis then it makes sense!

considering the drastic increase of pitch authority when losing 1 elevator, im confused as to why the german engineers didnt create the aircraft unstable in the first place, considering the heavy stickforces and the problems that come with it...easy solution, just make smaller elevators? :)

 

Because there is standard optimal value for the stick force - 3...4 kg per 1g. And 109 did have it. Too low forces - too unsafe.

Trim changes due to high Mach are not a subject to cure with low Mach neutral point position.

The point is that g4... k4 are not stable with full tanks at TO power even with intact empennage.

I think, you will not be happy taking off with a half of the elevator...

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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