Comms menu rework

I'm no professional UI designer but to me I envision a quote-unquote good design has the following properties:

 

1. Non-obstructive in visual situations (AAR, dog fight, carrier landing, etc.)

2. VR-compatible

3. Accessible by a variety of input methods (keyboard, joystick, voice, head direction, lua backend API, etc.)

 

Too often in discussing design changes aspects old design are assumed to be present in a new design. "How are we going to read the text?" Who says the interface has to have text? "How am I doing to scroll the list?" Who says the interface is a list?

 

Almost all that is in the pie formation. Other GUI related is about option of theme and settings (text, no text, symbols, no-symbols, background, no background) and nothing would change the scripting and such as you would chain same orders there.

 

The current tree formation is just shown in one plane at the time, no means to directly operate it with buttons as here mentioned the "Up, Down" for moving list up and down, and right to "enter" and left to "back to previous".

Give it a axis hat function and it becomes nice as well if well made, a good speed to make selection up/down with hat, hold right/left for X milliseconds to enter/return. But you still need to look at it with such method so you can't "call it from memory" as with a hat that has specific orders.

In a HOTAS centric piece of softwawre, no GUI will ever be good enough in my opinion. The ultimate solution is a built in voice recognition capability, tied to a slightly improved F menu. Just like voice attack.

In a HOTAS centric piece of softwawre, no GUI will ever be good enough in my opinion. The ultimate solution is a built in voice recognition capability, tied to a slightly improved F menu. Just like voice attack.

 

Yeah, ideally we would have an advanced AI that could recognise our words and decipher the information implied within.

 

Short of that, we can hope for a system that allows us to maintain positive control of the aircraft (both hands on controls), whilst not requiring a hefty amount of HOTAS buttons (the radial menu would just require a single button).

 

As for the obstruction in VR, I am curious what peoples opinions of the existing radial menu in DCS (jester) is. Whether if it could be improved in anyway: size, colour, position, etc?

Yeah, ideally we would have an advanced AI that could recognise our words and decipher the information implied within.

 

Short of that, we can hope for a system that allows us to maintain positive control of the aircraft (both hands on controls), whilst not requiring a hefty amount of HOTAS buttons (the radial menu would just require a single button).

 

As for the obstruction in VR, I am curious what peoples opinions of the existing radial menu in DCS (jester) is. Whether if it could be improved in anyway: size, colour, position, etc?

 

We do have that. It is called VIACOM PRO, and works very well. I wouldn't fly in VR without it. (And i wouldn't fly without VR). Even with my Australian accent, there are few phrases that aren't recognised. When they aren't I can simply say "take x" which is the verbal equivalent to pressing an F-key. ("take 1" = F1 etc). It is this reason I still have the comms menu appear instead of totally disabling it. And as far as buttons go you just map each radios PTT to the HOTAS, no need waste HOTAS buttons on F keys or wheel selections.

 

Would it be great if this was part of the core sim? Hell yes but VIACOM is relatively cheap and I would much prefer to see ED devote time to fixing the horrible AI and ATC.

 

I cannot comment on the Jester wheel in F14 as I don't have that module, but given how it looks I would disable it in a heart beat. The last thing I want in VR is a big wheel appearing in the middle of my view. As a military aviator/ATC of over 20 years, I want to maintain my scan while talking and holding a PTT down.

 

I would support updates to the comms menu as long as it stays unobtrusive.

As for the obstruction in VR, I am curious what peoples opinions of the existing radial menu in DCS (jester) is. Whether if it could be improved in anyway: size, colour, position, etc?

1.5 year and still hate it. It is big, obtrusive, colorful, uncomfortable to use and on top of that - the choices change places! To compare with normal comms menu - it's like AWACS menu is F6 during play and then it's F5 in different situation. At least wheel choices are bindable as are some of the Jester commands.

I prefer the visuals of the current system, however two things need to be addressed:

 

1. The agency at the top of the list should be the one your selected radio is tuned to, not the agency that is physically closest to your airplane. Working VoiceAttack with multiple airbases, multiple tankers, or multiple ships in the same area is an unmitigated clusterfrak. If I'm tuned to the CVN's freq I should NOT have some destroyer appearing as F1 in the ATC menu. Better yet, it shouldn't appear AT ALL because my radio isn't even tuned to it.

 

2. Consistency. The commands and their respective F-keys change depending on who/what you're talking to, and that makes programming VoiceAttack a pain in the butt.

In a HOTAS centric piece of softwawre, no GUI will ever be good enough in my opinion. The ultimate solution is a built in voice recognition capability, tied to a slightly improved F menu. Just like voice attack.

 

Voice systems are not user interface, and they do not work. Voice attack already is way too problematic and inaccurate to use.

Even best dictation softwares like Google has developed makes too many mistakes and those are very unused features overall as it is faster and easier to type.

Of course a Sim-Pit is typically silent compared scenarios where voice systems on mobile devices are used, but it is more used and repeating style, where even one mistake comes more severe.

 

Those of us who use voice attack can keep using it regardless what the Radio GUI is in the game. All that is needed is to get a proper ID numbers for all commands and such so one doesn't need to do whole step process to command something.

 

[12]Flight - [455] Go-To - [667] - Waypoint 5

 

So if one wants to get flight fly to waypoint 5, they don't need codes of 12, 455 and 667 in order but just call a order 667 and system knows what is meant.

That should be possible be binded in the game or keep a shortcut to it, or use the radio GUI that hides it all nicely.

 

We do not need voice systems in the game as those do not work. It is a featured in usability field one of the examples how voice systems shouldn't be used or even promoted as it is gimmick feature as it is very limited use.

 

It is nice to talk to a another person over VoIP in a tight and fast situations where your hands and eyes are elsewhere, buy it requires to be able process two data simultaneously, not possible for most people and in most situations.

 

Talking to a computer with Voice Attack and such for simple things as "Gears Up" or "Laser On" are already problematic. At least we have a visual indicator on HUD or Panel that command is registered or not. But it is not replacement to flip a handle or something similar with one hand.

 

Now make the HOTAS functions as voice commanded as "Shoot" or "Pickle" or "Switch to 9X" and it becomes sci-fi.

 

 

It is a nothing task to really use voice when it fails 1 time of 100. If it would be 100% reliable, it would even then be annoying to use when you can't be fluent and reliable what you are talking. In a dog fight situation AI should be as fluent to communicate that you can blindly fly based what wingman or GCI tells you that is happening around you and what is going to happen as they need to understand the possibilities and the scenario and know what to reply back.

 

It is just easier when one can make the combos quickly for a current radio system without ever talking anything.

 

As for the obstruction in VR, I am curious what peoples opinions of the existing radial menu in DCS (jester) is. Whether if it could be improved in anyway: size, colour, position, etc?

 

Jester menu is too big, too confusing graphics and colors, as well combo of symbols and text is problematic.

 

Minimal, clear colors for classification and text only is better. Make the size scale as wanted.

How about this, less obstructive?

I prefer the visuals of the current system, however two things need to be addressed:

 

1. The agency at the top of the list should be the one your selected radio is tuned to, not the agency that is physically closest to your airplane. Working VoiceAttack with multiple airbases, multiple tankers, or multiple ships in the same area is an unmitigated clusterfrak. If I'm tuned to the CVN's freq I should NOT have some destroyer appearing as F1 in the ATC menu. Better yet, it shouldn't appear AT ALL because my radio isn't even tuned to it.

 

2. Consistency. The commands and their respective F-keys change depending on who/what you're talking to, and that makes programming VoiceAttack a pain in the butt.

This... If effort is expended on the comms menu. Having only the agency you are tuned to is the absolute first step. I have always wondered who dials atc and then tries to talk to a jtac?!?

 

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

How about this, less obstructive?

Give us the option to put it in the corner and the yes..... Please don't put it in front of instruments or controls.

 

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Don't make it transparent in the middle of the screen, don't put it in the middle at all.

Don't make it transparent in the middle of the screen, don't put it in the middle at all.

 

Placing a radial menu like that anywhere else than in the centre of the screen would not be ergonomic imho. Putting it in, for instance, the right upper corner would force VR users to first look at that corner, than open the radial menu and look even further up right to select the 2 o'clock slice. During the entire time one can't properly scan instruments or HUD..

 

Not sure why some are so persistent about using a radial menu.

 

(I do admit, pretty much anything is better than what we have now. Just not sure if the Jester wheel is the way to go...)

How about the periphery?

Yes. Need rework.

The radio menu really should be primarily at the center of the default camera position, especially for a VR users. For a desktop users with keyboard/mouse it can be on the corner of the screen, but even a TrackIR user benefits more from the centered position.

 

And it really needs an background instead transparent against all other graphics in game.

Just a quick mock up to help visualise, if needed.

This is honestly a worse layout than what we have now, rather have a small but updated menu in the top than something that takes up the entire screen

well TBH I dont like the jester wheel in fact I hate it..

 

and no I dont have an alternitive,, but I can still hate it..

Personally, I'm okay with the current setup, I can't speak for VR as I don't have it, but it's just something I'm used to. I mean, maybe it would be better if you had more control on sizes and fonts.

 

For me, the ideal solution is to have voice recognition or something. If we had a player position for ATC/PAR and once DCS' voice chat, matures to the point where it's integrated with aircraft radios there probably won't be any need for a menu.

 

This is purely my opinion, I'm not going to say one is better than the other or whatever, in all honesty I'd get used to it either way (personally out of the current proposals, swift's corner wheel would be the one I'd prefer if the radio menu was to be changed).

The voice recognition is not an option for players who have to keep EMCON in their room :)

Imho ideal radio menu is as small and non-obtrusive as possible so I consider current one being pretty close. Just add next/prev for long lists, keybinds and implement HC mode like you can send any message on selected freq but you don't have the particular units shown on the list, just ex. general ATC > Inbound.

Edited September 27, 2020 by draconus

Comm's Menu is Clickable w/ Mouse Cursor...