VR Spotting in Beta

Current Beta Build 2.5.3.21235

Visible range of aerial targets seems to have dropped from: 30miles Down To 5miles

Is anyone else experiencing this?

Have tried a fresh install, GPU Driver rollback, running around in circles :pilotfly:

You can see targets at 30 miles in release (previous OB) version? In VR? Wow, that is impressive, and about 26 miles further than me.

I’m officially depressed.

I could see at 11 or 12 nm (barely, as a subtle dot), but now its impossible to spot anything in VR above 5-6. Any "impostor" option, like the one we had with 1.5 two years ago, will be more than convenient, specially to people with 4K monitors or VR HMD devices.

Current Beta Build 2.5.3.21235

Visible range of aerial targets seems to have dropped from: 30miles Down To 5miles

 

Is anyone else experiencing this?

 

Have tried a fresh install, GPU Driver rollback, running around in circles :pilotfly:

There was some stuff floating around last week (or the week before?) about this. From what I can recall, initially NineLine said no nothing changed...then some more things were posted and eventually, I think he said he could tell a difference too? Not sure where it went from there, but it might have been unintentional and might be being looked at?

TL;DR lots a half remembered facts but it's not just you seeing this, and you can't fix it yourself :thumbup:

Spotting distance has decreased in OB 9. This has been confirmed, but i had no doubt about it since minute 1 i completed the installation. The thing is the change is not subtle but quite significant. Is this great change that puzzles me. Obviously spotting distance before were fairly optimistic, 25 miles for a fighter were common and i play with VR, but now they have gone to the opposite, its quite bothering this up and down we get every x iterations, i would love some middle ground to stay forever.

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

Yup Sorry lads there is in fact another Thread about this which nineline has commented in here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=219065

I'm not 100% on what exactly the intentions of ED were as we didn't get any notification so it may or may not be an error. Time will tell i guess.

Let's be fair... to see another aircraft at over 10nm is tough, and I'm talking jetliners, fighter jets are smaller. Having said that, some kind of compromise is needed due to the lack of resolution on the current VR headsets.

Let's be fair... to see another aircraft at over 10nm is tough, and I'm talking jetliners, fighter jets are smaller. Having said that, some kind of compromise is needed due to the lack of resolution on the current VR headsets.

In theory resolution doesnt matter with this change, neither VR nor Desktop have an advantage here. The range at which the planes are no longer visible are now based on size it seems, a KC-135 is visible at farther ranges than a Hornet for example. That range should be the same at 4k all the way to VR.

I edited this modified labels that works in 2.5.3.

I attach the file. It substitutes the "dot" version, just for other version with a subtle dot in VR that fades in/out with the distance, also works with ground units - I edited the fade in/out distances just to have a compromise in VR and realistic view)

You have only to put this file in DCS user folder @ \DCS\Config\View

Please test it, for me its very useful specially with VR

Labels.lua

In theory resolution doesnt matter with this change, neither VR nor Desktop have an advantage here. The range at which the planes are no longer visible are now based on size it seems, a KC-135 is visible at farther ranges than a Hornet for example. That range should be the same at 4k all the way to VR.

However people I’ve spoken to who use a 4K monitor are still able to maintain spotting at decent ranges. Although as I’ve not tested myself I’ll conceed.

Both being equal... this is still a poor decision in my opinion.

Should you be able to see at 30-40nm? Probably not... 15-20nm perhaps. We aren’t playing real life as I’ve said before. (Zoom isn’t real life)

BFM will suffer dramatically and especially for VR users, who undoubtably have a lot to contend with already. And I say that coming from track ir

However people I’ve spoken to who use a 4K monitor are still able to maintain spotting at decent ranges. Although as I’ve not tested myself I’ll conceed.

 

Both being equal... this is still a poor decision in my opinion.

Should you be able to see at 30-40nm? Probably not... 15-20nm perhaps. We aren’t playing real life as I’ve said before. (Zoom isn’t real life)

BFM will suffer dramatically and especially for VR users, who undoubtably have a lot to contend with already. And I say that coming from track ir

I watch F-18's take off from my local airport, 5nm out there might as well not be there, and if not for the sound you wouldnt know, just saying. It should be equal yes, 4k, 480p whatever the resolution, no one should see things you cant typically see IRL. As for zoom, sure, its not IRL, but in IRL your world isnt a 24" viewport with a finite amount of clarity, we dont have pixels irl, so I would say thats a adaptation to help in that regard. I dont really care what is done, so long as you cant see missiles come off the rail of another aircraft at 30nm like you use to, that was the problem before, VR uses due to the size of the pixels in their face could literally spot missiles leaving the rail (1 pixel suddenly becoming 2). I as a VR uses confirmed this, and reported it to ED when I was a tester. I even took screenshots from multiple resolutions 1080p up to 4k to show just how awful it was. Spotting is a problem in VR, but from my personal standpoint, a tradeoff for the immersion and something that in time will get better. If you want to be competitive in VR, you will need to adjust to the limitations, the engine should not adjust things based on screen resolution or viewing device, it should just work the same regardless. I play in both VR and TIR still to this day. I love the immersion of VR, but there are times where I just dont want to use it due to it's disadvantages.

Spotting is a problem in VR, but from my personal standpoint, a tradeoff for the immersion and something that in time will get better

It shouldn't be a trade off and it wasn't prior to the changes.

Personally I think the change was too drastic and will hit VR users who enjoy non BVR combat in particular.

It shouldn't be a trade off and it wasn't prior to the changes.

 

Personally I think the change was too drastic and will hit VR users who enjoy non BVR combat in particular.

It was worse before, you couldnt see a missile come off the rail in 4k, giving VR users the advantage (I know a couple people who played competitively in VR and purposefully didnt use Super Sampling for this reason). I wont disagree that it may not be too drastic cause I haven't compared the 2. However, 5nm is kinda BVR in reality, dogfights shouldnt happen this far apart. Ill do some testing and see since i have 4k,1440p native monitors + VR.

I do a lot of BFM. I don't play on VR, but even on my 1080p 27in monitor I noticed that after recent updates maintaining visual contact with jets that are 2-3 miles away has gotten significantly harder. An Su-27 turns to a 1 pixel dot at 5000ft of separation.

I do a lot of BFM. I don't play on VR, but even on my 1080p 27in monitor I noticed that after recent updates maintaining visual contact with jets that are 2-3 miles away has gotten significantly harder. An Su-27 turns to a 1 pixel dot at 5000ft of separation.

Yeah was streaming today and... what a mess lol I couldn't spot a thing.. then when I did get in a merge I found it incredibly hard to maintain visual, which was never an issue for me before. :cry:

I do understand i'm being a little B-word about this but I love DCS and will be passionate about it cause I care.

Good thing im not the only one with this issue.

Even after a merge, maintaining LOS on a bandit is very hard and spotting a missile is worse.

Muscle memory is the only way I can beat any missile in BVR now, even most SAMs

I watch F-18's take off from my local airport, 5nm out there might as well not be there, and if not for the sound you wouldnt know, just saying. It should be equal yes, 4k, 480p whatever the resolution, no one should see things you cant typically see IRL. As for zoom, sure, its not IRL, but in IRL your world isnt a 24" viewport with a finite amount of clarity, we dont have pixels irl, so I would say thats a adaptation to help in that regard. I dont really care what is done, so long as you cant see missiles come off the rail of another aircraft at 30nm like you use to, that was the problem before, VR uses due to the size of the pixels in their face could literally spot missiles leaving the rail (1 pixel suddenly becoming 2). I as a VR uses confirmed this, and reported it to ED when I was a tester. I even took screenshots from multiple resolutions 1080p up to 4k to show just how awful it was. Spotting is a problem in VR, but from my personal standpoint, a tradeoff for the immersion and something that in time will get better. If you want to be competitive in VR, you will need to adjust to the limitations, the engine should not adjust things based on screen resolution or viewing device, it should just work the same regardless. I play in both VR and TIR still to this day. I love the immersion of VR, but there are times where I just dont want to use it due to it's disadvantages.

I agree that spotting missiles coming off the rail at 20mn in VR was not very realistic. Having said that, I feel the change might have been too drastic. I hope ED progressively iterate until we get a good sweet spot. And most importantly, trying to reduce advantages/disadvantages across resolutions. I trust ED in this regard.

Yeah was streaming today and... what a mess lol I couldn't spot a thing.. then when I did get in a merge I found it incredibly hard to maintain visual, which was never an issue for me before. :cry:

I do understand i'm being a little B-word about this but I love DCS and will be passionate about it cause I care.

Ya I’m not saying this should be the final result, especially if it’s that hard. But it’s a step in the right direction. Hopefully they tune it over time

Hey Jabbers didn't NineLine mention that you were helping ED with spotting testing/suggestions etc?

Hey Jabbers didn't NineLine mention that you were helping ED with spotting testing/suggestions etc?

I never saw anything about that, but I could have missed it. I did write up bugs about spotting initially when i was a tester along with tracking them, now that I'm not a tester I no longer have access to said things and status'. That said I send feedback directly to NineLine and some other current testers when I see it (no pun intended), if they do anything with it or what they do with it is beyond my control.

So, I streamed in VR last night did a bunch of heli A2A with some friends... had no problem spotting even small gazelles at large distances (5nm or so). Will try more with A2A planes later