DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion

Another scenario - Jugs moving in fast to blow up ground targets, with Ponys providing top cover? Might work, if group of skilled fellaz teamed up on TS.

One would hope. But with the current engine it will be darn near impossible to spot a enemy below you at useful distances IE: as significant altitude advantage. Hopefully Edge helps alot with this. ED has now admitted the DMG model has issues, and hopefully it fixed soon, because the combination of poor visibility and weak guns will make BnZ next to useless.

Flying the P-47 will be quite difficult considering the late 1944 prop competition. At the moment the servers are just spawn, start up your engines and fight. Which is typical low altitude dog fighting and that's exactly what you shouldn't be doing in a P-47. Giving the P-47s some ground targets to attack or some high altitude dog fighting would be nice .

Flying the P-47 will be quite difficult considering the late 1944 prop competition.

No dispute there, given the above and the lack of 150grade, and as you mentioned--the aircraft selection

This is a simulator so I assuming it has nothing to do with balance, but I was reading on the forums a couple of months ago and IIRC a developer said giving the P-51D 150 octane would ruin the fine balance between a Mustang and a Dora.

This is a simulator so I assuming it has nothing to do with balance, but I was reading on the forums a couple of months ago and IIRC a developer said giving the P-51D 150 octane would ruin the fine balance between a Mustang and a Dora.

Right now the Pony does turn better, as it should, but it is lacking other performance abilities whereas the 190 has some it should not have. High speed over 20k is what I am refering to. The Dora will overtake the pony right now over 25k--which is just nonsense. So even at 67inches some work needs done to get them "balanced"

Without the 150 the thunderbolt is going to be a less than desirable air to air fighter vs very very late war German birds. It might still be more agile over 20k, but it wont have its speed advantage at any height vs the 109K and only at exceedingly high altitudes vs the Dora. If it had the 150 grade it would at least have parity over 15k.

Right now the Pony does turn better, as it should, but it is lacking other performance abilities whereas the 190 has some it should not have. High speed over 20k is what I am refering to. The Dora will overtake the pony right now over 25k--which is just nonsense. So even at 67inches some work needs done to get them "balanced"

Without the 150 the thunderbolt is going to be a less than desirable air to air fighter vs very very late war German birds. It might still be more agile over 20k, but it wont have its speed advantage at any height vs the 109K and only at exceedingly high altitudes vs the Dora. If it had the 150 grade it would at least have parity over 15k.

I haven't flown the P-51D above 7500m in online so far, so I don't know for sure if the Dora over takes the P-51D at 7500m. Unfortunately the the highest I've ever flown was probably 4000m. There is pretty much no point in having an advantage at high altitude, since the current dogfights only take place below 3000m. Having some AI B-17s or B-24s to escort would be glorious :thumbup:

P-47 - kit airplane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2D3k0sJ8HM

To help you Juggies in flying the P-47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KnwIYwEh6o

Ever hear of the "Double Twister"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29bHphGlEE

Episode of Air Aces I edited a few years ago. Fell in love with the P47 since.

I like the propeller hub cover for the double twister :)

Any news at all on the P-47? Wish we could just skip the Spit and get to the real planes that are left but how is progress on our Jug? Seeing that the Bf109 got pushed back I expect something similar for the rest of the series so maybe May for the P47?

Any news at all on the P-47? Wish we could just skip the Spit and get to the real planes that are left but how is progress on our Jug? Seeing that the Bf109 got pushed back I expect something similar for the rest of the series so maybe May for the P47?

I expect the germans thought the same thing. :megalol:

Looking forward to the p-47 too.

When it's done.

I adore the Spitfire and am looking to flying the Spit more than any other. But I do have a love for all WW2 warbirds and I know that the P-47 was a very effective warplane that shot down a lot of enemy aircraft. So I too want to see the P-47 given justice in DCS. It should be a very fast and effective weapon. With The flight models being worked on i'm sure we will get an accurate P-47, I think it is more a question of the AI effectiveness who at present do not miss a beat in air combat you have to get everything right in the air to defeat a FW-190 you cant afford to make many mistakes if any.

It won't be "given justice" because it is going to be slower than both 109K4 and Fw190D9 because it is an earlier 1944 model and all German planes are upgraded later versions. The real P-47D would mostly fight Bf109G6 and G14 during that period and Fw190A8 and D9 without MW50... but in the game we have only high-end German planes. So I good luck with P-47D:)

I am waiting for that plane, because it is very important for 1943-1944 allied effort...but the plane is going to feel underpowered.

Any news at all on the P-47? Wish we could just skip the Spit and get to the real planes that are left but how is progress on our Jug? Seeing that the Bf109 got pushed back I expect something similar for the rest of the series so maybe May for the P47?

Exactly....P47 rocks!

It won't be "given justice" because it is going to be slower than both 109K4 and Fw190D9 because it is an earlier 1944 model and all German planes are upgraded later versions. The real P-47D would mostly fight Bf109G6 and G14 during that period and Fw190A8 and D9 without MW50... but in the game we have only high-end German planes. So I good luck with P-47D

 

I am waiting for that plane, because it is very important for 1943-1944 allied effort...but the plane is going to feel underpowered.

It will not be given justice as fighter because it hauls around an extra 1000lbs of weight in the form of a turbo supercharger. Weight which hurts its low altitude performance when facing lighter more responsive supercharged engines of similar power. At altitude when those engine struggle, the P47 becomes the fighter of choice.

What it will be is the best tactical ground pounder in the DCS inventory. The Typhoon is on the horizon too.

Exactly....P47 rocks!

 

 

 

 

It will not be given justice as fighter because it hauls around an extra 1000lbs of weight in the form of a turbo supercharger. Weight which hurts its low altitude performance when facing lighter more responsive supercharged engines of similar power. At altitude when those engine struggle, the P47 becomes the fighter of choice.

 

What it will be is the best tactical ground pounder in the DCS inventory. The Typhoon is on the horizon too.

It will definitely be the ground attack vehicle of choice until some of the 3rd party planes start hitting the air but I wouldn't totally discount it as a fighter either. If it has a decent dive speed and roll rate it should be able to hold its own in an energy fight but either way I'll find a way to use it's traits. Really looking forward to this and the Me262 whenever ED gets to it.

The Pratt and Whitney R-2800-59 Double Wasp eighteen-cylinder air-cooled radial with war emergency power of 2535 hp should help compensate for the turbocharger weight.

The dive recovery flaps will come in handy.

It will definitely be the ground attack vehicle of choice until some of the 3rd party planes start hitting the air but I wouldn't totally discount it as a fighter either. If it has a decent dive speed and roll rate it should be able to hold its own in an energy fight but either way I'll find a way to use it's traits. Really looking forward to this and the Me262 whenever ED gets to it.

I agree. The P-47 is excellent energy fighter even at low altitude. As you say, it is the man not the machine that matters.

Remember....real airplanes have round engines!

Remember....real airplanes have round engines!

The A-10C Warthog has two! :D

Exactly....P47 rocks!

 

It will not be given justice as fighter because it hauls around an extra 1000lbs of weight in the form of a turbo supercharger. Weight which hurts its low altitude performance when facing lighter more responsive supercharged engines of similar power. At altitude when those engine struggle, the P47 becomes the fighter of choice.

 

What it will be is the best tactical ground pounder in the DCS inventory. The Typhoon is on the horizon too.

a) P-47 was not underpowered when compared to contemporary German fighters. It fought mostly Fw190A and Bf109G serries, so it was capable of engaging them on its own without a problem. The P-47 was a capable fighter at any altitude... if it would fight the enemies it fought mostly during WW2.

b)The P-47 was a fighter first, when it was assigned for ground pound pilots were sad, I am sad too. The highest scoring ace of European theatre Francis Gabreski flew a P-47and it is going to be a punching bag for the Germans, in this game :(

c)Best tactical ground pounder in DCS? A-10? Su25?...Unless you refer to WW2 planes that we have... but how is that an accomplishment if all planes that we have are fighters. Nothing dedicated like Ju87 or Hs129.

d)P-47 and P-40 are going to have hard time in the future and Typhoon too, those are old planes when compared to 109K4 and 190D9

e)Noboy flies that high.

It will not be given justice as fighter because it hauls around an extra 1000lbs of weight in the form of a turbo supercharger. Weight which hurts its low altitude performance when facing lighter more responsive supercharged engines of similar power. At altitude when those engine struggle, the P47 becomes the fighter of choice.

 

What it will be is the best tactical ground pounder in the DCS inventory. The Typhoon is on the horizon too.

Yeah, except with 150 octane it was fairly competitive at low altitude, anyway the P47D wasn't the contemporary of the K4 and the D9, it was the P47M.

Were losses among P-47s so high that the earlier versions didn't exist alongside the K4 and D9?

Just because a newer model becomes available, doesn't mean all the earlier ones are just withdrawn.

On the other hand however, German losses would mean that the K4 and D9 would be far more prominent, don't you think?

Can anyone shed light on how and when the replacement variants became prominent beyond just the bald fact that the P-47M entered service on such and such a date? I'm guessing it would have taken a while before the earlier models were withdrawn.

Were losses among P-47s so high that the earlier versions didn't exist alongside the K4 and D9?

 

Just because a newer model becomes available, doesn't mean all the earlier ones are just withdrawn.

 

On the other hand however, German losses would mean that the K4 and D9 would be far more prominent, don't you think?

 

Can anyone shed light on how and when the replacement variants became prominent beyond just the bald fact that the P-47M entered service on such and such a date? I'm guessing it would have taken a while before the earlier models were withdrawn.

You don't understand. IRL Bf109K4 came waaaaaay too late to change anything, and most units were not Bf109K4 only. K4 like any other Bf109 was transfered as a replacement or formed into some units without special managment of versions. So even in one flight there could be K4, two G6 and a G14 at the same time.

Up untill the end of the war most popular German fighter in the air was Bf109G6 and it's modifications. Around 9000+ total

Bf109K4 was built in 1944 in only around 500 units. It is not reflective of real historic situation over europe in 1944. When fighting a 109 in the air 7 out of 10 times you were fighting against Bf109G6 and 2 out of 10 with G14. The 109K4 started to be "visible" in 1945 when it's production reached around 2500 units, but the allies had already achieved air superiority by that time and had numerical advantage.

The counter for better 109K and 190D(or Ta152) models would be the P-47M and P-51H, but because Lufwaffe was literally dead and grinded into the ground at that point and P-47 squadrons already were mostly transitioned to P-51D and P-51H was not needed anymore. So P-51H and P-47M production was halted, because there was no need for a new fighter. 20xP-51D vs 1x109K4 is good enough to render its fighting capability usless.

P-47D would fight against Bf109G6, G14 and G10 at best. Of course there is CHANCE of finding a rare white crow like the K4, but it was not a every day reality. In DCS it is an every day reality.

There is a huge difference between versions of 109s. :book:

PS. We are getting a Normandy map and the game is called DCS WWII: Europe 1944. Bf109K4 arrived way after not only D-Day, but when france was already liberated and allies were at doorstep of Germany, so in any campaign over France the K4 variant is just a wild imagination/fanfic scenario.

PS2. One historian once said: "The D-Day was the biggest air battle of WW2... that never took place" because Luftwaffe was already weakened by real hero of 1943-44 period. The P-47 Thunderbolt.