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Old 01-21-2018, 12:00 PM   #161
Emu
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Basically look how far away the missile is when burnout occurs and tell me how likely it is that the F-15 was that close to the launcher.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:14 PM   #162
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So you're saying the smoke trail we see in all those video I linked is actually just vapor right?

Let's look at the video I linked in post 148.

I'm sure you know how IR missiles guide by maintaining a minimum line-of-sight rate, so as the missile speed decreases the lead angle increases. If we look at the video in question however we see the missile taking a large lead angle in the beginning (almost as if it's at low speed) and then continously decreasing that angle until intercept (almost as if it's accelerating).

But there's probably another, totally obvious, reason for that.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:24 PM   #163
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So you're saying the smoke trail we see in all those video I linked is actually just vapor right?

Let's look at the video I linked in post 148.

I'm sure you know how IR missiles guide by maintaining a minimum line-of-sight rate, so as the missile speed decreases the lead angle increases. If we look at the video in question however we see the missile taking a large lead angle in the beginning (almost as if it's at low speed) and then continously decreasing that angle until intercept (almost as if it's accelerating).

But there's probably another, totally obvious, reason for that.
Yes, damn straight. Look in Weta's video, that is a boost sustain motor and still lasts only 2s. Look at your second video back in this post. Same deal in your video.

Look back at the other video you initially posted.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=137


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That aircraft is pretty low at 0:30 and is the missile motor still burning? Nope.

Lead angle blah, blah, etc. There's no way you can induce that from the video. You can't even see the target, only the impact. And how they guide depends on the missile and target range. E.g. using proportional guidance all the way would bleed a lot of energy if the aircraft was manoeuvring.

Go to 3:48 in this video, you can clearly see the burn time of ~2-2.5s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DmQ_tE0t5U&t=228s
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:36 PM   #164
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Yes, damn straight. Look in Weta's video, that is a boost sustain motor and still lasts only 2s. Look at your second video back in this post. Same deal in your video.

Look back at the other video you initially posted.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=137



That aircraft is pretty low at 0:30 and is the missile motor still burning? Nope.
Pretty low? Are you kidding me? You can't even see the ground, there is no reference at all. Look at 3:25 in the same video you genius, I'm gonna say that aircraft is "pretty high" and the missile is burning on intercept? Where's your logic there?

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Lead angle blah, blah, etc. There's no way you can induce that from the video. You can't even see the target, only the impact. And how they guide depends on the missile and target range. E.g. using proportional guidance all the way would bleed a lot of energy if the aircraft was manoeuvring.
Yea I can. And I can see the target, maybe have your eyes checked. IR missiles don't know range, that's the point, which is why they use LOS-rate zeroing to guide.

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Go to 3:48 in this video, you can clearly see the burn time of ~2-2.5s.
And how is that not "vapor" now? Your logic is so inconsistent it's adorable. You bend reality to fit it to your horrible theories.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:54 PM   #165
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Pretty low? Are you kidding me? You can't even see the ground, there is no reference at all. Look at 3:25 in the same video you genius, I'm gonna say that aircraft is "pretty high" and the missile is burning on intercept? Where's your logic there?



Yea I can. And I can see the target, maybe have your eyes checked. IR missiles don't know range, that's the point, which is why they use LOS-rate zeroing to guide.



And how is that not "vapor" now? Your logic is so inconsistent it's adorable. You bend reality to fit it to your horrible theories.
Smoke trail, look at this video at 3:48, the lighting and atmospheric conditions are perfect for showing when the motor burns out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DmQ_tE0t5U&t=228s

Now imagine that was an F-15E that had just had it's afterburners on for 10s.

Nope, can't see it. I've watched in 10 times fullscreen on a 32 inch monitor and still can't see it but have noticed a lot of marks on my screen, which need cleaning, so thanks for that. Perhaps you could circle it.

Simples. You can see the bright glow, that is the burn. A contrail can occur in the absence of any motor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

And a little hint, cloudy skies aren't necessarily produced by rocket activity either.

And of course, all this argument surrounds the assertion that the Saudis had spent billions buying what are probably the most advanced Eagles out there only to waste their tech. by flying them at low altitude. I suppose when stealth jets enter service they will fly them at low altitude too, just so that their technological advantage is completely nullified.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:12 PM   #166
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Smoke trail, look at this video at 3:48, the lighting and atmospheric conditions are perfect for showing when the motor burns out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DmQ_tE0t5U&t=228s
I just love how you take a 240p video where it might just be hard to see the rocket motor during the intercept, but try to tell me about contrails in a 720p video where you can very clearly see the complete flyout.

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Nope, can't see it. I've watched in 10 times fullscreen on a 32 inch monitor and still can't see it but have noticed a lot of marks on my screen, which need cleaning, so thanks for that. Perhaps you could circle it.
Look again, the MiG is visible shortly after impact and then in the next couple frames. Enough to get a rough trajectory of the plane, which, as we can tell from the missile trajectory, flew pretty much straight.

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Simples. You can see the bright glow, that is the burn. A contrail can occur in the absence of any motor.
And how would that work? Have you ever seen planes with engines out produce contrails? I surely haven't. What you're looking at is smoke from the engine exhaust, open your eyes.

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And a little hint, cloudy skies aren't necessarily produced by rocket activity either.
No, they're produced by chemtrails, everybody knows that.

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And of course, all this argument surrounds the assertion that the Saudis had spent billions buying what are probably the most advanced Eagles out there only to waste their tech. by flying them at low altitude. I suppose when stealth jets enter service they will fly them at low altitude too, just so that their technological advantage is completely nullified.
How does this fit in with "missing a MiG-29" or simply not doing anything about it?
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:37 PM   #167
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I just love how you take a 240p video where it might just be hard to see the rocket motor during the intercept, but try to tell me about contrails in a 720p video where you can very clearly see the complete flyout.



Look again, the MiG is visible shortly after impact and then in the next couple frames. Enough to get a rough trajectory of the plane, which, as we can tell from the missile trajectory, flew pretty much straight.



And how would that work? Have you ever seen planes with engines out produce contrails? I surely haven't. What you're looking at is smoke from the engine exhaust, open your eyes.



No, they're produced by chemtrails, everybody knows that.



How does this fit in with "missing a MiG-29" or simply not doing anything about it?
Err... no, it just clearly stops burning. I've also shown you evidence of burn time straight from the manufacturer for boost only MANPADS.

Which is what I said, it is only visible upon impact. SO how you determined lead angles prior is hilarious.

I've gliders produce contrails.

Chemtrails? What? Clouds are water vapour.

Easily, most losses and near misses are due to not seeing an opponent,.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:52 PM   #168
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Err... no, it just clearly stops burning. I've also shown you evidence of burn time straight from the manufacturer for boost only MANPADS.
I won't argue about this motor burning anymore, it's hopeless. I've proved my point already, you went from "literally less than a second" to "2-2.5 seconds". So what were you saying again?

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SO how you determined lead angles prior is hilarious.
How's that? Maybe you just have no clue what you're talking about?

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I've gliders produce contrails.
Source? You're confusing wing-tip vortices with contrails I think.

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Chemtrails? What? Clouds are water vapour.
LOL, sarcasm.
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Old 01-21-2018, 04:14 PM   #169
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I have to laugh at this whole thread, what is the meaning of this, if any? F-15's are a mechanical construct, they are lifeless and pieces of equipment are worthless if no one of any skill is using it. Tanks get blown up, planes get shot down, and planes crash through errors. end of story. Just flight simmers getting caught up in their own testosterone.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:54 PM   #170
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I have to laugh at this whole thread, what is the meaning of this, if any? F-15's are a mechanical construct, they are lifeless and pieces of equipment are worthless if no one of any skill is using it. Tanks get blown up, planes get shot down, and planes crash through errors. end of story. Just flight simmers getting caught up in their own testosterone.
Ain't the Strike line still open? Buy some more!

Very interesting, though, to see how fast tables turn and failures happen. Warheads, seekers, loading, lack of testing, etc... the smallest things seem to cause the biggest excrement-shows all around. Whether it's on a forum or in a sandbox...
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