Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?

And what exactly makes you feel you are entitled to complain?

Is the Hornet still in early access? Yes

Does that mean it is finished? No

Does that mean they OWE you a date to wich 1 feature will be available? No

Are you granted to complain when it is stated as finished product and the said feature is not available? Yes.

 

All they owe you is a finished product, that's it.

When that will happen, and in what order it will happen is up to a developer.

The thing you are missing and what makes your life a complete waste right now, could be completely unimportant for someone else. But screw others, you're more important right?

 

Just take a chillpill and actually, for once, SUPPORT a developer instead of thinking they are out to destroy your life.

What would your morale be, if every customer would start bitching towards you. Not in a decent way giving critical tips and tell you what they would like. But instead just all be dicks towards you, and just state that everything you do makes zero sense, and you're doing it wrong, and you're a shitty person working for a shitty company.

For once, look at something as if you were an outsider. Look at both sides, and try some logic.

I will promise you it will make your life a lot more fun.

(Unless you like the negativity of course. for some people it's just the only thing they know/want)

You went from 0 to 100 real quick over one sentence. Me, my friends and many others here are paying customers. That's called *supporting* the developer. You don't put food on the table with positive forum comments.

We paid for the Hornet and other products ED has made over the years, and are allowed to voice our opinions and concerns, even if they don't align with yours, as long as we are respectful and follow the forum rules. No one thinks ED is "out to destroy their lives", this is just a false statement that has nothing to do with what I wrote.

How do you know that's not the case ?

 

Maybe the Hornet team didn't change, and now there is new guy working on the F-16 radar, and thanks to that synergy we'll have the TWS earlier ...

 

Maybe not, but can't afirm neither

ED said that the radar guy continued working on the Viper instead of returning to the Hornet.

Ok, here is the deal, and I am sure it won't make it any easier, but it was determined that it would be more efficient for the Radar guy to stay put and finish what he is doing on the Viper, THAT said, the work he is doing on the Viper is still mutually beneficial to the Hornet, and while it ends up that the Viper gets it first, the development aside from tying it into the Hornet systems will be all but done.

 

I heard horror stories from the past about old code that was left by ex-employees, and no one could figure it out or do much with it, I think they are being much more proactive with development now so that items can be better plugged into new modules...

 

I still get it though, this won't make people happy, but for now it makes the most sense. Sorry guys.

Original post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4077671&postcount=14

Me, my friends and many others here are paying customers. That's called *supporting* the developer. You don't put food on the table with positive forum comments.

We paid for the Hornet and other products ED has made over the years,

You got what you paid for. A complete module (according to a list of features) at a not further specified date and early access to a version that is still under development. No one said, the hornet will get feature xy at date z, no one said hornet will get feature xy before module z gets it.

why is there even only one guy working on the radar for 2 birds? didn't nick write on reddit or somewhere they have 125 people in the company? i have no insight how ED works and i'm pretty sure they have their workloads and priorities but it feels unproportional to have a single point of failure for such a highly anticipated feature

why is there even only one guy working on the radar for 2 birds? didn't nick write on reddit or somewhere they have 125 people in the company? i have no insight how ED works and i'm pretty sure they have their workloads and priorities but it feels unproportional to have a single point of failure for such a highly anticipated feature

Because why would you want to program that in tandem when it's the same underlying framework? You don't especially NEED another guy on that two finish it for both birds effectively.

So, when can we expect radar love for the Hornet then? When is the radar guy done doing his thing with the new toy?

You can't always solve a problem by throwing more guys at it. For example, 9 women still take 9 months to give birth to a child ;)

You don't especially NEED another guy on that two finish it for both birds effectively.

Apparently you do since work on one bird effectively holds up work on the other… and arguably in the wrong order.

You can't always solve a problem by throwing more guys at it. For example, 9 women still take 9 months to give birth to a child

The difference is that 9 women take 9 months to give birth to 9 children, as opposed to just having one woman do it, at which point it more likely takes over nine years. Or 2 programmers taking 2 years to build 2 birds, rather than 1 programmer taking 6+ years because oops he left half-way through and had to be replaced, and also forgot to comment his code…

Put another way, if you're going to apply a tired old simile, make sure it actually applies to the given situation.

Because why would you want to program that in tandem when it's the same underlying framework? You don't especially NEED another guy on that two finish it for both birds effectively.

well, in my understanding of code development you would have one good coder (or team) building the basic radar framework and two teams using that built framework for the corresponding functions on the 2 jets. and the thing with "not needing" another guy shows exactly the result where we are right now. i would argue we do need another guy, but hey thats just my opinion

well, in my understanding of code development you would have one good coder (or team) building the basic radar framework and two teams using that built framework for the corresponding functions on the 2 jets. and the thing with "not needing" another guy shows exactly the result where we are right now. i would argue we do need another guy, but hey thats just my opinion

I would argue: we don't - as long as we don't know who does what at ED all our opionions are effectively worthless, yours and mine.

Theres not much to do: voice our opinions, which we did, maybe stop buying EA / continue buying EA (which we will do or do not) and wait for stuff to be finished.

The Viper is getting TWS in today's patch according to bignewy and the patch notes BTW, so timelines might be a lot shorter than people are imagining.

The Viper is getting TWS in today's patch according to bignewy and the patch notes BTW, so timelines might be a lot shorter than people are imagining.

This

Not gonna lie, this thread is so amusing to read. :laugh:

The Viper is getting TWS in today's patch according to bignewy and the patch notes BTW, so timelines might be a lot shorter than people are imagining.

How do you know, that developer might be tweeking that feature for god knows how long. All i see is Ed moving resources away wich stand in the way of completion for the hornet. They have said that the hornet and vuper are seprate teams and one would not suffer from another. Couple of weeks back the news came that in order to hit release they have moved some devs over to the viper... one again not what whas told. And now a few weeks later we learn these devs are stil working there. Just because you dont use the words i prommise doesnt mean you as a company are not acountable for what you say.

removed from patch because of the grumpy hornet players?

F-16 owners, UNITE!

:lol::lol:

Lol they will spark civil war haha

But...The Hornet isn't further behind the Viper.

The Hornet has;

JDAMs

JSOWs

MAVs

HARMs

Harpoons

Center pylon fuel tank

exterior lights

moving map

IFF

Jettison

etc

 

You guys have got to calm down a bit, the order of features coming on line is irrelevant.

I think he is referring to TWS in isolation, not the airframe as a whole.

I think he is referring to TWS in isolation, not the airframe as a whole.

And even if he doesnt.... they wherent released at the same time. So logical that the hornet is further. Problem is that it shouldnt slow down because of new modules

Unable to get the update for me.

Anyone in the same case ?

(Referring to the quote below) This is the problem: This should have been super clear to us Hornet owners since the beginning. This explanation completely makes sense to me. I do not like it and it upsets me, but I understand it. I work in App Dev (different industry) and understand why this choice was made.

However, I'm a bit more tactical in how I communicate information like this. Randomly seeing a FB video of the Viper getting TWS and no additional context or why... is upsetting. Especially when we look back at the history of "Viper won't slow down the Hornet". While to you (ED), it might be true that Hornet progress is marginally slowed down (or not at all), it does not feel that way as a customer.

It is your job to manage our expectations, for us to know your vision, but the way you all are communicating this information... it's just really, really difficult to understand when a new Viper video drops on a feature that has been wanted for the Hornet well over 1.5 years.

Be transparent, but please be a bit more tactical.

Ok, here is the deal, and I am sure it won't make it any easier, but it was determined that it would be more efficient for the Radar guy to stay put and finish what he is doing on the Viper, THAT said, the work he is doing on the Viper is still mutually beneficial to the Hornet, and while it ends up that the Viper gets it first, the development aside from tying it into the Hornet systems will be all but done.

 

I heard horror stories from the past about old code that was left by ex-employees, and no one could figure it out or do much with it, I think they are being much more proactive with development now so that items can be better plugged into new modules...

 

I still get it though, this won't make people happy, but for now it makes the most sense. Sorry guys.

I understand why you have chosen to do as you have done.

 

However it is in my view and unacceptable thing to do.

 

You know full well that many many hornet pilots have TWS as a single capability they have focused on, especially for MP.

 

You know that there is already anger that ED has delayed features for the Hornet to prioritise getting the Viper to EA

 

To now deploy TWS to the Viper *before* the Hornet, even if it is by a single OB, is in my mind optically unacceptable.

 

I was going to buy the viper at such point the Hornet had been completed with pace. As a result of this development . I have decided I will now not purchase the Viper from you as I can only it appears influence EDs behaviour by closing my wallet.

 

I will not purchase another module (I own most full fidelity jets) until I perceive that ED has changed its ways and respects the customers by giving features to those who have been waiting the longest.

 

Maybe you will in time listen to that.

I know it's unpleasant for ED people to read that but I fully agree with the above. Let's make it clear that the intention isn't to put ED in trouble. It's to put things back in order in all brains: us, players and you, ED guys, are both passionate. But we are the customers and you are the shopkeepers. You can lock our threads and ban our accounts but you can't unlock our wallets.

I understand why you make the TWS for the Viper before the Hornet. I also understand why it's the best option for now. But that's the result of quite an unforgivable process from a customer's point of view.

I wish you the best although I am very unhappy with that behaviour and hope it changes before it's too late for DCS.

ED tossed you the keys and said, "because you paid us money before the product was released, we're going to let you come down to the factory and sit in the cockpit until it's done. You can offer some advice about the order you would like it finished, you can tell us where we have made some errors with the paintwork, button placement, stitching."

 

Then when the Hornet is released, you get the product you paid for, with TWS, all the bells and whistles. This is what Early Access means.

This is exactly what early access is: you can view the workflow because you have contributed to development with your money. If It Is convenient for ED to close a line or to postpone something, it's not up to you to syndicate. You have not bought ED stock actions, you haven't earned your seat in the board of directors. You Just can seat on the cockpit, report a bug to help if you see some, and wait for the product to be finished (if ever).

I guess I'm in the minority that love both planes so much that its not that hard to swallow the viper get it a bit first. In fact, after a year of incredible fun in the hornet i see it like "ok, time to fully enjoy the viper for some weeks".

Lets be practical, please ED do it the best efficient way but do it, I do want TWS on my hornet, but i'm totally okay if this is better.

Keep calm guys and enjoy both birds!