Show me your mad dogfighting skills!

Congratulations man that's some seriously good going!

 

I know posting a vid (rendering / uploading) is time consuming but when you do a particularly good fight with some funky moves or some close shaves or whatever, share it with the community dude - I for one really enjoy watching (& learning) from others dogfighting.

Although I'd understand if you had some 'trade secrets':)

 

I just checked my stats as not been counting and it's 74 - so hats off to you! :thumbup:

Thanks, Viamanaman! (dammit, what a tongue-twister nickname... what does it mean?)

Oh, it's not too time consuming. The video is not edited (I was too lazy...) and for the rendering I simply use the "YT" preset of Photoshop CS6 (no... it's not cracked... I really own it and paid for it :smartass:).

If you guys like to see more I'll remember to save a track file and post a video if it's worth watching. ;)

There are no 'trade secrets'.

I use flaps 'one click down' initially to gain hight and an energy advantage.

The flaps help also to catch those stall rolls I performed in the video.

The manifold pressure stays below 50 inHg most of the time.

The more boost, the worse turns the plane. ;)

I sometimes reduce the manifold to less than 3000 inHg and then I can stall-turn/stall-roll the plane by slamming the rudder from opposite to turn direction.

Again, flaps one click down helps to keep the plane under control.

(shush... it's still tricky ;) :music_whistling:)

Rpm above 2500 - mostly 2700-3000.

Well, 74 victories is quite good I'd say! :thumbup:

Shoot down another 26 opponents - and we will establish a club of P-51 aces! ;)

"I use flaps 'one click down' initially to gain hight and an energy advantage."

Wait?? you use flaps down in a climb against AI or opponet? I must be mis interpreting? Am I? I see you were at full Manifold 55-60 and 35 RPM while going up behind your opponet,,, so Im a tad confused. I do see your flaps retracting when you level off. I appreciate the tips as well

"I use flaps 'one click down' initially to gain hight and an energy advantage."

 

Wait?? you use flaps down in a climb against AI or opponet? I must be mis interpreting? Am I? I see you were at full Manifold 55-60 and 35 RPM while going up behind your opponet,,, so Im a tad confused. I do see your flaps retracting when you level off. I appreciate the tips as well

No, you interpret it correctly.

Flaps one click down gives you extra lift.

It stabilizes the plane at lower speeds and it behaves less like a wild bronco when you stall turn or stall roll.

Try it. You'll be surprised how handsome the Pony will get ;)

And yes, sure I slammed in all that the engine is capable when I followed him into that steep climb. It gives you that tiny bit of stability to get your bullets into the bullseye... ;)

But before that climb I was at 50 inHg, trimmed upwards, flaps one click down.

Full power is an option - not the standard setting in a dogfight ;)

I would have break from the attack before I would have been too slow - or the engine would overheat.

In that case the advantage would've been that I'd gained energy a little bit earlier so I could have spanked the AI bastard's butt one round later.

I can send you the track so you can take a closer look ;)

Yeah, I get the flaps bit for turn etc, but in a steep climb? Thats what I find surprising,,, most times I get in a steep climb I need all the throttle and RPM I can get to stay with the AI, I would make the presumption that if I lowered my flaps even just 1 click it would create more drag, decreasing my velocity and enter a stall much sooner then without flaps. Its not like I ever catch up to the AI in a climb, they always seem to manage not to stall out in the same clime as I start to buffet and have to pull off,,,,

Yeah, I get the flaps bit for turn etc, but in a steep climb? Thats what I find surprising,,, most times I get in a steep climb I need all the throttle and RPM I can get to stay with the AI, I would make the presumption that if I lowered my flaps even just 1 click it would create more drag, decreasing my velocity and enter a stall much sooner then without flaps. Its not like I ever catch up to the AI in a climb, they always seem to manage not to stall out in the same clime as I start to buffet and have to pull off,,,,

Here is the track file of the video (see attachment).

It's a little bit long, because I return to base at the end (no comments on that shitty landing please :D)

Just type LCtrl+Z (or is it Y? can't remember) at the beginning so you can take control of my head movement (virtually... ;)) and look at the gauges and flaps and trim settings.

You may press RCtrl+Enter to see the rudder input.

Sure, the flaps create more drag, but they stabilize the plane and when it stalls, it stalls more politely ;)

Higher drag is not a problem in terms of top speed because in a dogfight the speed is most likely quite low - if 250 kts can be considered as low speed...:D.

When the AI (or which ever opponent) pulls up, reduce throttle (well below 50 inHg), trim tail heavy, use flaps one click down (if not allready set) - and you can follow him.

Setting flaps may be not necessary. Try what suits best.

Don't forget to apply power once you are at the desired climb rate - or you will fall behind.

Trim neutral when you are on his tail. The plane will respond better to stick input.

If you can't shoot him to pieces before your speed gets too low - break off.

You have to dig deep in the bag of tricks in a dogfight.:joystick:

Everything is allowed.:smartass:

Some pilots have even extended the landing gear to slow down speed - well that should be the last option. But I did it several times... and it works ;)

100 Aerial Victories!.trk

Thanks for the feedback, I still have a long way to go, I will certainly look at this track and hope to better myself with it. Many thanks for the tips.

Let me know if my tips help you!

Would be a pleasure!

Oh yes, don't forget to trim back to neutral before you apply full throttle.

Unless you enjoy when the whole crate wobbles, shakes and rattles.

Thanks, Viamanaman! (dammit, what a tongue-twister nickname... what does it mean?)

 

Oh, it's not too time consuming. The video is not edited (I was too lazy...) and for the rendering I simply use the "YT" preset of Photoshop CS6 (no... it's not cracked... I really own it and paid for it :smartass:).

If you guys like to see more I'll remember to save a track file and post a video if it's worth watching. ;)

 

There are no 'trade secrets'.

I use flaps 'one click down' initially to gain hight and an energy advantage.

The flaps help also to catch those stall rolls I performed in the video.

The manifold pressure stays below 50 inHg most of the time.

The more boost, the worse turns the plane. ;)

I sometimes reduce the manifold to less than 3000 inHg and then I can stall-turn/stall-roll the plane by slamming the rudder from opposite to turn direction.

Again, flaps one click down helps to keep the plane under control.

(shush... it's still tricky ;) :music_whistling:)

Rpm above 2500 - mostly 2700-3000.

 

Well, 74 victories is quite good I'd say! :thumbup:

Shoot down another 26 opponents - and we will establish a club of P-51 aces! ;)

You're welcome Konrad

The name... :lol: recently modified.

Yeah it was the flap 1 setting that caught my eye - cheers for sharing details - I'll have to try that - I always keep a clean machine for the reasons Fakum mentions - sounds like it has some good advantages though in certain circumstances.

Re doing a vid or two of some good fights - only if you'd like to - but I'm sure I'm not alone in finding DF vids interesting and useful from a learning point of view. I'll check out your TRK if that's cool.

That's 74 in 1.2.2 - before there were more ;) - I don't know how many more as don't bother saving my stats.

Cheers V

Ok, another video.

I got ot admit that it is a little bit boring - but I especially recorded it so that you can see how I stay above and than behind the AI.

(Online with an human opponent it is another game - people do unpredictable things... ;))

Well - I played cat and mouse with our bold AI pilot.

I've chosen the "high" skilled pilot - because he is easier to control when you get on his tail.

I thought it could be interesting to check out my throttle and steering input - so I attached the track file as well.

Just press LCtrl+Z (or is it Y?) to control the head movement so you can check the gauges.

Sorry 'bout the poor shooting :music_whistling:

Next time I post something more exciting - promised ;)

Cat and mouse.trk

Thanks, you make it look pretty easy

Ok, another video.

I got ot admit that it is a little bit boring - but I especially recorded it so that you can see how I stay above and than behind the AI.

(Online with an human opponent it is another game - people do unpredictable things... ;))

 

Well - I played cat and mouse with our bold AI pilot.

I've chosen the "high" skilled pilot - because he is easier to control when you get on his tail.

I thought it could be interesting to check out my throttle and steering input - so I attached the track file as well.

Just press LCtrl+Z (or is it Y?) to control the head movement so you can check the gauges.

 

Sorry 'bout the poor shooting :music_whistling:

 

Next time I post something more exciting - promised ;)

That's not boring dude! That's some nice flying!

I think I can see what flap 1 gives you (but haven't watched the track yet) - that's a commanding position you get yourself into - nice one.

When I fly 'clean' for me it's a game of... merge, and whilst turning very hard sometimes, still deliberately keeping some decent separation until a opportunity opens, and then diving in to his 6, and then making sure I'm keeping it smooth...

...That's a whole new view of the AI I've never seen before :) watching him run out of E from above - nice - You seem to be out climbing and out turning him - very interesting.

Ta for the vid

[edit - just so you know the AI in that mission starts loaded with bombs and rockets - it probably doesn't matter as the AI jettison them pretty much immediately upon mission start, but I always make sure the load out, fuel and alt are equal for AI contests. I guess it's a DCS 'ready mission'? I often go for more lateral separation at the start like 5+ miles so I've time to get set up - but anyways just so you know - I don't think it affected the outcome - end edit]

[edit - just so you know the AI in that mission starts loaded with bombs and rockets - it probably doesn't matter as the AI jettison them pretty much immediately upon mission start, but I always make sure the load out, fuel and alt are equal for AI contests. I guess it's a DCS 'ready mission'? I often go for more lateral separation at the start like 5+ miles so I've time to get set up - but anyways just so you know - I don't think it affected the outcome - end edit]

Oooops...

How embarrassing...:wallbash:

I have not noticed that...

I constantly tweak the dogfight scenario.

And I often shift the advantage back and forth.

There is nothing worse than getting used to one situation.

And it helps a lot to keep you on your toes ;)

I just checked the file and... oooops even more embarrassing... I set the AI's initial speed to 135 kts... :blush:

I immediately tested the same situation with equal speeds...

and the funny part is: that I get him even sooner, because he's flying a wider curve... :D

I apologize for the confusion, won't happen again. :music_whistling:

I have several scenarios for a dogfight with the AI, some with equal situations, some with slightly unfair advantages/disadvantages.

And I recommend to change those scenarios quite often. I use those where I am in the disadvantage quite often.

It forces you to handle different situations (and it prevents you from getting bored to pieces;)).

And you come up with new ideas.

However, you should not set the AI to an initial position behind yourself.

The AI was probably best of his year when he visited the K-14 gunsight course. You'll bail out quicker than you can shout "shit!".

Although it is a very different game to deal with human opponents: if you go online you'll have a nice big bag of tricks in which you can dig.

And well...

The thing with the flaps is just one part of my dogfighting.

And, well, real world pilots used flaps. Flaps provide more lift at lower speeds - that's why they are installed ;).

The most important part is to only use full throttle when you need it.

It is an option - not the standard setting.

Well, I think you know that, Vimanaman - or you won't have 75 AI guys downed ;) - but other guys may find it helpful to see how to set the throttle more efficient.

I recorded the "cat and mouse" video to demonstrate that the plane is much more maneuverable at lower throttle settings.

61 inHg is for acceleration (or for running away... ;)).

I rarely use the WEP setting of 67 inHg.

The other part is a proper trim setting.

I constantly trim.

No apology necessary Konrad, really.

If anything I owe you an apology - I should have PM'd you - sorry Dude!

It's easily done - I've a number of different missions also and sometimes forget what I've changed, & when I come back to them I need to sort them out again.

I didn't even notice the AI speed thing - that will have made a difference:)

I have no doubt you're an excellent pilot! Or you wouldn't have 100+ kills.

Yeah it was the 'bag of tricks' thing that made me interested in flap 1 - I think it was Viper a while back said 'don't just have one strength' - I've used them before in IL2, etc. but was quite 'green' then, and didn't fully understand when to, and when not to, use them. And as you say it's a real World technique. I think I get the pros and cons now.

I currently only use flap 1 at the mo on downwind to land, to slow up for gear speed - but obviously with very low power set - they do that job well. I'll practise fighting with them - as you and Viper have said it's good to have more than one strength.

I don't trim the nose at all during a fight - but if you're using flap 1 then you'd have to I'm sure - I trim for 270 indicated, works ok with the huge IAS fluctuations - Likewise though I very rarely use high MP / RPM - max continuous or just above is usually enough - just goes to show there's a few different ways to 'skin at cat' (achive the same thing).

Well, what to say about this bit... "...or you won't have 75 AI guys downed", you're a cheeky devil but you're alright Konrad, keep up the excellent wotk :)

Next time you post a vid (& please do, when time, by the way), if I see something unusual I'll keep my big mouth shut & just PM you:)

If anything I owe you an apology - I should have PM'd you - sorry Dude!

>if I see something unusual I'll keep my big mouth shut & just PM you:)

Naaahh, no need to apologize!

You were right.

You found something and pointed it out.

That's ok.

You can shout it out loud - what ever it is. :smilewink:

Well don't let me put you off posting vids of good fights - others will really benefit, enjoy & learn from them, as will I (& I'll have nothing but positive things to say or I'll PM you).

I'm currently working on a joy ride vid which was held up today by problems taking off from Beslan due to boiling coolant - It's almost impossible to TO from Beslan in the Stang without boiling the coolant - 1 success out of 5 with different seasons, temperatures and QNH - is it me or the altitude?

Anyways really when you do a good fight (yeah check it first and all that) but really poeple here (beyond me) will want to see it.

Respect Dude

Well don't let me put you off posting vids of good fights

Your wish is my command ;)

I've chosen one of my 'disadvantage' missions.

AI starts at 7500 ft, 300 kts.

I'm at 6500 ft, 257 kts.

Fuel weight is equal: 45%.

The trick is to let him bleed off his speed in several passes until you can gain control.

I've attached both, the track file and the mission file.

Still not very exciting in terms of wild maneuvers, but I hope it is may be interesting to see how I cope with a nasty situation like that... :music_whistling::smilewink:

Please watch in HD 720p.

Konrad in disadvantage.trk

P-51D vs P-51D Dogfight_Disadvantage.miz

Nice kill - really nice.

Seriously good shooting as well!

Excellent stuff.

Nice one Konrad

I attached '100th aerial victory' file of the associated video.

For SnowTigers studies ;)

Edit:

Doesn't work... dammnit...

Edit, again...

Just found out why... it's allready posted... :blush:

it's here post #230 at the end of the page:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1681224#post1681224

I'm sure the AI is on a different FM... it's as if it's on steroids - The engine management must be very creative ??

I still haven't set my rig up properly yet, but I suppose out flying the AI is worth getting credit for !

A real mode track...

P51DF.trk

I'm sure the AI is on a different FM... it's as if it's on steroids - The engine management must be very creative ??

Zero difference whatsoever wrt Flight Model.

The difference is that the A.I. does not make mistakes - you do.

Zero difference whatsoever wrt Flight Model.

 

The difference is that the A.I. does not make mistakes - you do.

Yep - I've learned that the hard way...

Solution: Don't do any mistakes when dogfighting with the AI... :smartass:

I'm sure the AI is on a different FM... it's as if it's on steroids - The engine management must be very creative ??

I still haven't set my rig up properly yet, but I suppose out flying the AI is worth getting credit for !

A real mode track...

Just watched your track.

First: your rudder trim is set to 3° right.

Should be set to 0° ;)

You do not trim your elevators at all...

That is really important.

Try this:

Set up a mission where you fly alone.

Set RPM to 2500 or 2700, manifold pressure to 46 inHg.

Now fly the plane with elevator trim - don't push or pull at the stick.

In this exercise you will use the stick only for roll movement.

You'll see how maneuverable the plane is by just setting the elevator trim.

Check it out in a dogfight.

You'll need less stick movement and your steering will be much more precise.

Use flaps in a dogfight.

You can use RPM to full increase at 3000rpm.

The setting is made for situations like dogfighting ;) (and take-off).

Keep it up!

It will get better!

Zero difference whatsoever wrt Flight Model.

That's good to know..

The difference is that the A.I. does not make mistakes - you do.

Finally... Got that horrid little buzzard.

If he thought he was going to run away.. he thought WRONG

He was going down....

Mind you.. this is without pedals.. not too bad

whoot.trk

And.... another, and another.. and another... This is now getting enjoyable...

I must remember how to open the canopy - wot a nooob

A Friendly Match.trk

Bob.trk