AIM-120 for the Hornet

If it's flying away from you at such a low altitude then yeah ... 5-6nm is about the best you can expect. Nothing wrong here.

Ok, I`ll answer you immediately:

-In normal attitude - between 3000-5000 fts;

-In perfect weather conditions, no rain, no snow, daytime;

-Vs BIG targets (last time i`ve played vs Chinese AWACS), and AIM-120 allows me to shoot in...6 nm....:mad::mad:

 

So tell me, where is the excuse for AIM-120/AIM-7?

Target is always flying towards me, and I just cant find any reason why AIM`s range is too short.

The reason is that you had unrealistic expectations from the start.

In that case your maximum range against such a target (Depending on its speed) could reach as far as 14-16nm. But that's against a completely non-maneuvering target moving at mach 0.9 or so, same for the launch. So yes, 6nm is rather short in this situation.

No, it doesnt. Its always towards me.

Which is unrealistic? To can shoot modern AA missile like AIM-120B vs AWACS at range of 20-30 miles? Or maybe realistic is to shoot it from 6 miles? So when you are playing vs fighters, you will shoot them from what range...maybe when you see its numbers and insignia?

Then why we have a BVR AA missiles? Remove them and we will shoot with guns only...

It actually is unrealistic to shoot an AIM120b at an AWAC from only 5000'. Launching from such low altitude means the missile is starting off handicapped, it has to immediately climb, which eats up a ton of energy, then it has to maneuver to intercept the target, which eats up more energy.

The only way you're going to get a 30+mile shot is from 30000'+ at or near mach1 against a *non-maneuvering* target coming straight at you. Firing from high altitude is important to range, the air is less dense at high altitude, which means less drag and more speed. In addition if you are high and firing on a target below you, the missile can exchange altitude for speed, further enabling it to continue maneuvering.

there should be a Launcher but it`s WIP so nothing to worry :)

 

 

That pylon/launcher is swiss specific modification, no other hornet user uses them and i highly doupt we will see those in DCS.

I assume they were co-altitude, but I could be wrong.

As for the 30nm shot ... I expect 0.9M 20000' for AIM-120A still arriving supersonic.

It actually is unrealistic to shoot an AIM120b at an AWAC from only 5000'. Launching from such low altitude means the missile is starting off handicapped, it has to immediately climb, which eats up a ton of energy, then it has to maneuver to intercept the target, which eats up more energy.

 

The only way you're going to get a 30+mile shot is from 30000'+ at or near mach1 against a *non-maneuvering* target coming straight at you. Firing from high altitude is important to range, the air is less dense at high altitude, which means less drag and more speed. In addition if you are high and firing on a target below you, the missile can exchange altitude for speed, further enabling it to continue maneuvering.

I assume they were co-altitude, but I could be wrong.

 

As for the 30nm shot ... I expect 0.9M 20000' for AIM-120A still arriving supersonic.

Interesting, and good to know, I was a little overzealous apparently :)

Are those real-world numbers or DCS numbers? Just curious as I have read that DCS is suspected of having draggier missiles than real world (...the guy who did all the CFD stuff on DCS missiles)

I have been doing some testing and here's what I've found.

Going head to head with a MiG-29 at same altitude/airspeed (25,000, 500knots) I can get a very good hit percentage from inside 15nm, 10nm is easy money. From behind, flying the same heading, I'm getting hits at 8nm.

That's not great range but it's an improvement over the AIM-7. That turd has an effective range equal to the AIM-9.

Also, the missile is self guiding well beyond these ranges, I've let one go and broke lock immediately and it guided from 25nm. It didn't hit but the point is if you are in range to score a hit you are in pitbull range so fire and forget. For that matter, the AIM-120 is worth it for just this reason alone, fire then move on to another target rather then holding lock to impact.

ETA/ I'm getting a shoot cue at 20nm head on but I haven't scored an actual hit from that range yet. But the shoot cue from a rear aspect is pretty accurate for a good hit percentage.

At what point does the missile go pitbull? Theoretically speaking, as long as I'm within max range, and with a shoot cue on the HUD, can I fire and break lock?

At what point does the missile go pitbull? Theoretically speaking, as long as I'm within max range, and with a shoot cue on the HUD, can I fire and break lock?

There should be a count down to show when it goes active. Its not implemented RMax RNE is all wrong too.

I mentioned this in my previous post but I haven't tested from all altitudes, airspeeds, aspects but from what I'm seeing, if you're getting a shoot cue you are pitbull. However a shoot cue doesn't guarantee a hit. Every missile I let go inside of shoot cue range I could break lock immediately after and it still guided to the target.

Until I see otherwise, I'm going forward assuming shoot cue=pitbull.

There should be a count down to show when it goes active. Its not implemented RMax RNE is all wrong too.

Thanks!

I mentioned this in my previous post but I haven't tested from all altitudes, airspeeds, aspects but from what I'm seeing, if you're getting a shoot cue you are pitbull. However a shoot cue doesn't guarantee a hit. Every missile I let go inside of shoot cue range I could break lock immediately after and it still guided to the target.

 

Until I see otherwise, I'm going forward assuming shoot cue=pitbull.

Understood, thanks for your testing! You do mean a solid shoot cue and not at range of no escape, correct?

All very exciting...now we just need TWS to ripple fire.

They will be loaded just like the sidewinders are loaded under the wing, or sparrows in station 4&6. They need a launcher to launch.

if you're getting a shoot cue you are pitbull

Wrong.

Yes, miles better. I think I will take 20miles happily , not so much of a fan of short range missile in air-to-air combat.

I have nothing against short range missiles, they come in very handy in dogfights! :thumbup: As long as they are labelled as such :music_whistling:;)

Ok guys another question... I am happy that the 120B is here but why only 4??

On Pylon 2 and 8 I can only load one instead of 2 and on pylon 3 and 7 none (should also carry 2) is it still wip or intended?

That pylon/launcher is swiss specific modification, no other hornet user uses them and i highly doupt we will see those in DCS.

i dont think its a Swiss Specific Mod.

http://marvineng.com/product/lau-127/

Since to my Knowledge you cant mount Bombs and A/A Missiles to the Same Pylon because the Missiles on the Wing Pylons are rail Launched

Wrong.

Maybe explain why to go along with statements like this otherwise you just sound like an ass.

I thought I was very clear on what I was saying. From my experience so far, if you are getting a "shoot" cue in the hud you are essentially in range for the missile to guide itself. I have broke radar lock immediately after launch and the missile found its way to the target.

I'm not saying "shoot" explicitly means pitbull, just that at this point in what I assume is a work in progress, it's equivalent to pitbull. Maybe there's situations where that's not the case but I have not encountered one yet.

Yay !!!!

Well it is at mine. I was just able to complete the 4v4 vs mig29 instant action mission thanks to the amraam and it didn’t switch targets or lose lock during evasive manouvers once.

I didn't check update 8 yet (so much to try, can't do all at once plus one single experience with any results regardless is not representative at all). Those points had been listed with Update 6 and were still present in Update 7 though. If they're fixed now, everyhthing is perfectly fine

And I can wait even longer, because even if something is said to be fixed, there still might be some issues left with it. That's where we come in our roles to try the stuff out in early access and tell them what's changed on our sides

The maximum range again (like it was in aim-7) i so damn short...

When DCS will fix this for both missiles?

Someone tell me, is this normal, when real max range is 30+ nm, the range in DCS to be 6-7 nm.

????

I suggest you to take 45 minutes of time and listen to this, completely:

Spoiler alert

Maybe explain why to go along with statements like this otherwise you just sound like an ass.

 

I thought I was very clear on what I was saying. From my experience so far, if you are getting a "shoot" cue in the hud you are essentially in range for the missile to guide itself. I have broke radar lock immediately after launch and the missile found its way to the target.

 

I'm not saying "shoot" explicitly means pitbull, just that at this point in what I assume is a work in progress, it's equivalent to pitbull. Maybe there's situations where that's not the case but I have not encountered one yet.

Shoot means you are in max range.

Shoot blinking mean you are in so called no escape zone.

None of this has anything to do with pitbull mode for AMRAAM.

Pitbul is simple "missile is not guided by plane's radar anymore, but by its own radar". If it actually has the missile lock itself and do track some target or not is completely different story and that information only the missile has. The missile itself has a seeker. Meaning when it has not a lock, it is searching for something to lock on. It may travel some time ballistic before it find something to lock on. The problem is, it might be other target than pilot intended for it, like friendly aircraft. And missile has no IFF. This is why you want to guide all the missile's path to the target with your radar if possible.

Your aircraft's radar does not talk with radar of the missile (I don't think its even active until the missile is launched) so it cannot know if it has lock of its own yet or not. There are SOOO MANY variables in play that will determine when missile is able to lock certain target (speed, elevation, background, angle, cross section, ecm, .....................................). It will be different range for each shot. Missile is primarily guided by beam from your radar, because radar in your aircraft you can control and it is better than the missile's. When missile cannot see your beam, it create its own if conditions allow it.

I believe there is no clue for pilot when the missile has lock of its own and can be left alone, someone correct me if I am wrong.

You're missing his point SeaFox...

We know how the 120 is "supposed" to work. He was talking about how it can be used currently with the surprise 120 on the 18 RIGHT NOW. Not IRL. Not the 15.

How to use the missile RIGHT NOW on the 18.

Read his post again before you respond ;). Thanks.

To answer everyone's question about the rail, per A1-F18AC-NFM-200 Fig. 11-2, AIM-120 has drag counts published for "Fuselage" and "LAU-127". LAU-127 requires a LAU-115 DRA, and the LAU-115 can be loaded on pylon. This gives the impression that AIM-120 can only be carried in pairs on the pylons. Can anyone find a picture of a single AIM-120 loaded on a SUU-63? Super Hornets can carry a single LAU-127 on a SUU-80 outboard pylon, but I've never seen a Legacy with a single AIM-120 on a pylon.

Also....

FYI...

I've unlocked Aim-7's when accidentally fired at friendlies before we had "IFF"... and had them continue to track and then kill the target.

It's "WIP" and that's what was being talked about. Not how it should work when it's finished.