F16 force sensing stick

Does anybody know if there is a stick or base for sale which works well and uses force sensing as in the real F16?

There used to be mods for the older cougar sticks, but an off the shelf product would be preferable.

Check out Realsimulator’s FSSB R3 Lighting base.

I did think that the Saitek X65 did. No idea if it was any good and being Saitek, I'd be a little conscious of potential reliability issues.

Thank you, that lightning seems to do the trick. Just a tad expensive though.

I did think that the Saitek X65 did. No idea if it was any good and being Saitek, I'd be a little conscious of potential reliability issues.

X65F is a great little stick. I've had mine for years, never a problem.

Best option is Real Simulator - who used make mods for Cougar and Wartog and now offer complete joystick - ForceSense base + F-16 or F-18 grips in aluminium with more functions per button.

They have years of experience with ForceSense.

http://www.realsimulator.com/

Best option is Real Simulator - who used make mods for Cougar and Wartog and now offer complete joystick - ForceSense base + F-16 or F-18 grips in aluminium with more functions per button.

 

They have years of experience with ForceSense.

 

http://www.realsimulator.com/

I can't make heads or tails of that website - have no idea if they are selling a base, or a base with a stick, or you need a Warthog stick and put in a force sensor they are making but it still is mounted to the Warthog base? 'FSSB R3 Lighting' - is that used with the 'F16SGRH' - which is their F-16 replica grip but with nothing to mount it to? So bottom line if you want a F-16 replica stick and force sensing base it will cost you 900 euro?

The FSSB R3 base is force-sensing i.e. no moving parts, and is compatible with the TM and Virpil's grips (technically anything that uses TM-compatible sockets (needs firmware update by Realsim for full button compatibility).

The F-16 grip is an electronic bluetooth joystick that has built in position-sensor (not force) which can work by itself using this method by connecting to anything such as a plain rod (especially for simpit people who build their own base, etc.). It can also be mounted to TM Warthog (to utilize its gimbal mechanism) and FSSB R3 bases (for force sensing mechanism), and maybe Virpil bases since the connector is compatible.

Both of these are completely different animals.

Thank you, that lightning seems to do the trick. Jast a tad expensive though

Yeah, these guys build real simulators for military institutions so their prices are a bit upscaled. This is still nothing compared to their pro versions though (just look at their Hornet or Viper simpit on their website). I'm just grateful that we get trickled down technology for home use. There is currently nothing else like that out there. I'm also hoping that they will move into force feedback arena in the future, if anyone can do it right it would be these guys.

If you already have a Warthog then the FSSB R3 is what you want as its frankly built like a tank and will last forever. I know somebody who bought an original FSSB about 15 years ago and its still going strong as his primary stick -it was a cougar upgrade at that time.

F16 force sensing stick

Realsim just sent me the software preview for the new grip, they said to play with it until the grip arrives.

Interested to hear any development.

I’ll play with it this weekend. Tough to do a review now without the complete hardware. But the software also covers the FSSB base, so there is that.

EDIT:

Just installed the preview software from Realsimulator. Nothing is new on the FSSB R3 side since I do not have the newest testing firmware. Basically it has 4 slots that can be switched on the fly, this is similar to layers on Thrustmaster's Target software but it is built into the hardware itself so no need to run any software in the background. What sets it apart from typical joystick base layer is that for each slot you can specify changes beyond switches/buttons--you can completely change sensitivities of pitch/roll, force input settings, control precision, lights, sounds, and DX button options. The advantage of saving to the hardware directly is that when you switch computers, the settings stay with the device so there is no need to transfer the setting profiles and load them up with the software. It might also bypass the need to recalibrate the device.

The F-16SG control page takes this up to another level. It has 8 slots, each slot can have up to 64 DX buttons so a total of 512 possible DX buttons which is a bit on the insane side. The grip has a special dial ring underneath the trim hat so you can switch between slot 1-8 on the fly which is pretty neat. It has options for you to name the DX buttons as well as show button input commands for each individual button. You can disable the center buttons on any 5 way switches (most of the switches are 5 ways, even the pickle button), or choose to activate them only with double click rather than single click. I see up to 7 axes of input control and since the F-16SG grip only has input 3 axes (pitch, roll, yaw) I'm not sure where the extra 4 would come from (accessories?, future throttle?, etc?). There are also bluetooh control settings but no idea what they do. As I do not yet have the grip, I have no way to test this further. There are separate tabs for F-16 left hand grip, as well as F-18 right and left hand grips--so those are definitely coming too! I'm now tempted to cancel my TM F-18 preorder and instead wait for the Realsim's F-18 grip, lol.

FYI, as per email from Realsim’s CEO, the sticks are being shipped out for European customers. US buyers might have to wait another week or two.

Seems like a great product, I may order one in due time

Thanks for the clarification Supmua, that and the great replies to my emails from the RS guys and I have ordered a FSSB R3 and angle adapter for myself. Looking forward to the F-16 release!

FSSB R3 is great but you have to re learn how to fly from scratch once you use it.

FSSB R3 is great but you have to re learn how to fly from scratch once you use it.

It is not too bad if you are the gentle type with typical joystick base since only small amount input force is needed. But if you are the type that slams your stick around when you fly, and use heavy curve setting etc, then it is going to take some time to get used to it.

I recall reading some place that newly transitioned Viper pilots had the same experience. Accidentally doing a snap roll when first getting familiar with plane. I've been using it in one form or another for about ten years, first an FSSB2 on a TM Cougar, (which is still working like a champ). And then on the FSSB R3 for the WH. I love it. It really doesn't take long to get used to it and once you do you really don't want to go back.

But if you are the type that slams your stick around when you fly, and use heavy curve setting etc, then it is going to take some time to get used to it.

This is enlightening, I've always wondered why people found it difficult to adjust to the base when it took me less than a minute and felt completely natural. But I also never use curves, which is probably the reason why.

Realsim shipped my F16 grip, so I should have it in a few days. It’s a nice surprise since the website stated Sept for US customers. I’m curious to see how well it will work with the FSSB base.

Have it in my hands. The wooden box that houses this thing while appears premium doesn’t give much protection, and got damaged during the shipment. The paddle switch hinge broke off but the physical switch is working. I’m still working this out with Realsim but they say to use it in the meantime.

Early impression is very positive. This in combination with FSSB R3L is probably going to be the ultimate combo for the upcoming F-16 module.

The grip is made of high density resin and feels very high quality but durability remains to be seen. When sit on top of the base it is angled forward compared to the Warthog grip.

There are 3 LED lights that indicates which buttons on the 5-way switch you press or which layer of input you’re current using (8 total).

The setup is convoluted mainly due to Bluetooth and the device itself is complex, and that’s why it isn’t quite ready for worldwide release yet. I have only skimmed the surface of this thing and there is plenty more to learn. I’ve only tried it with the FSSB R3L bass so far. Still have yet to try it with Warthog, Virpil, and as stand alone gyro stick.

I was considering buying this and already have the fssb r3. Supmua, besides extra buttons what would be the advantage of having this. The Bluetooth would be useless for me because of mount it on the fssb base. I don't care too much about more modes. Would you say it would be worth getting if I don't need that stuff? Thx

Almost every button is a 4-way + push button. How do they feel?

Edit: disappointing to hear about the transit damage, especially since they charge an extortionate amount for delivery.

F16 force sensing stick

The buttons are of good quality not cheap thin semi-transparent plastics seen in most sticks, and feels very similar to the Warthog grip in terms of spring strength plus faint clicks (most TMW buttons don’t click when you press). You’ll also see LED light activation when pressing buttons (both audio and visual cues). There are also both audio and visual cues when you switch input layers to remind you which layer you are using.

The red Undesignate/NWS button is actually 5-way with different LED lights position but they choose to only utilize 3 in the software due to up and down position being harder to press. I have zero issue operating any of these 5-way buttons.

I haven’t played with it enough to say if it would be worth it to most people. The instructions on how to operate this thing is rather sparse right now, and I still do not grasp its full potential. This is clearly a high tech toy meant for tech savvy folks, but I think they can make it a little easier to use for general public via software and better instructions.

You will need to have Windows 10 and Bluetooth 4.0 or the stick will not work as the stick must be paired to the PC first. Bluetooth doesn’t work well with USB 3 port especially the red one (3.1) due to signal interference, USB 2.0 is recommended. The buttons are wireless, but the axis inputs depend on whether you are using the built in sensor or your own base.

There are 64 DX inputs per layer, multiply that by 8 (switchable layers via a special dial underneath the trim hat) for a total of 512 DX inputs. I can pretty much bind whatever I need and much more.

They do need better packaging to prevent damage during shipment, the special container that comes with the FSSB is built like a tank and is a much better choice.