Holidays are coming: Warthog or VKB

Hello all, (Norcat here)

Holidays are coming and my kiddos would like to upgrade my 3yr old X-55 Rhino. There are too many options and unknowns. I need some help in determining the best route to go. I am a DCS only guy, aiming to mainly fly the Hornet and Tomcat when released.

I’d like to get a new throttle/stick set or just a stick. No rudder pedals though. The twist grip is perfect for me and I don’t really have the room for pedals or desire to fly with them.

Options

1. Thrustmaster Warthog: Awesome stick (A10/F16). Future F-18 available and future F-14 Grip from VKB. No Twist..... bummer. Throttle is set for A10 use and frankly pretty cool other wise. I can see it as an AV-8 stand in with the FOV as a nozzle setting. Adapting it to an MCG Pro should be just as easy.

2. VKB: MCG Pro. Love the Russian sticks and I am intrigued by HEATBLUR teaming up with them. Will they become the new standard in Sticks? Any one of the Russian machines would feel more immersive with it and VKB is making the F-14 grip. They have a twist adapter as well. Perfect! No throttle yet.......so I will use my Rhino. Will have access to all future sticks on there except for the A10/16 grip (unless TM will sell it separately as a grip some day...)

Do I go Warthog and suffer no twist (Rudder) and use the keyboard...gross. LOL Get a stick & throttle that is really sweet with a lift for fuel cutoff (really fun) and enough buttons too work any aircraft. ~Does the TM have a twist grip Option? Can’t find one on line.

Do I go VKB and get a twist MCG PRO and future VKB F-14 grip, then mount the F18 grip with the Warthog Adapter? Leave my self open to a VKB throttle?

This is a truly a ‘first world problem’ (not a real problem) and my X-55 is still great. Just don’t like the spring and non uniform force rates plus its a bit too big for my hand.

I think I am leaning toward VKB since they have a twist option for the stick and it simply looks awesome. Would be fun to try Russian style hardware and see the difference in operation. VKB cost is near same as the Warthog package and that’s without a throttle.....bummer.

I described the options to my wife when she let her guard down while having a coffee yesterday. Lol Being married to a pilot she is used to flying talk and frankly kept up really well too, but in the end she has suggested I reach out to you guys.

So, what do you think?

Warthog Throttle and Stick or VKB MCG Pro (on a gunfighter) with twist adapter? :joystick:

Have a happy flying day!

I went with VKB. I am done with the Thrustmasters and Logitechs out there... I have an X-55 and don't like the quality. Even the warthog had the dodgy gimbal.

I am looking forward to the MCG pro stick to retire my X55 stick... now I just need to be patient and wait for the VKB throttle.

Will they become the new standard in Sticks?

For informed people VKB, VPC is not a new standard now? ;)

Buy their available/on pre-order and use with your X-55 throttle, when their release their throttles you decide between then and Warthog throttle.

Specially that you don't want rudder pedals, VKB twist is the option - and the only that worth. :joystick:

For informed people VKB, VPC is not a new standard now? ;)

 

Buy their available/on pre-order and use with your X-55 throttle, when their release their throttles you decide between then and Warthog throttle.

 

Specially that you don't want rudder pedals, VKB twist is the option - and the only that worth. :joystick:

My thinking as well. VKB and VPC have definitely set a new standard. :thumbup:

Yeah, I recently ordered the T-50 and will use it with the Warthog or X55 throttle until the VPC throttle becomes available. Depends on if I can sell the Warthog when the T-50 gets here. Of course this is a birthday, anniversary, Xmas gift...December is a busy month here.

Agree with StandingCow. Avoid the Warthog.

The VKB looks very good. I was 50/50 on whether to go VKB or VPC, but I went for VPC in the end. That's mostly because VKB are hard to get hold of in Europe, but there is one other consideration for you: when Thrustmaster release their F/A-18C grip, there's no guarantee that the physical dimensions inside will be the same as the A-10C grip, so VKB may have to create a new adaptor. VPC on the other hand, doesn't require an adaptor. VPC doesn't have a twist option though, of course.

I would highly recommend the VPC ( Virpil ) offering as well. Keep in mind though it is not a desk top gimbal, needs to be mounted. Their desk mount along with extension set works beautifully for that.

Flying with that stick between my legs is very natural.

VKB or Virpil. Virpil have the advantage of an actually modern fighter grip and base you can buy *today*, and a known throttle design that will be released Soon™.

VKB also have an awesome base, with an amazing looking grip near shipping ready. They say they have a modular throttle Coming Soon™, the thought of which sends extra blood to my nether regions...

Z...

Agree with StandingCow. Avoid the Warthog.

 

The VKB looks very good. I was 50/50 on whether to go VKB or VPC, but I went for VPC in the end. That's mostly because VKB are hard to get hold of in Europe, but there is one other consideration for you: when Thrustmaster release their F/A-18C grip, there's no guarantee that the physical dimensions inside will be the same as the A-10C grip, so VKB may have to create a new adaptor. VPC on the other hand, doesn't require an adaptor. VPC doesn't have a twist option though, of course.

I seem to remember reading that they were developing one? Or did I just imagine that?

Z...

There's no point in going with Warthog with your requirements. Neither VKB or VPC offers a complete solution right now, but you can start acquiring your new hotas set and keep using X55 in the mean time.

Though the throttle from VKB is a big unknown, you can wait for that a little longer.

I seem to remember reading that they were developing one? Or did I just imagine that?

 

Z...

You might be right, apologies.

warthog!

How could anyone recommend a Warthog over the VPC or VKB?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How could anyone recommend a Warthog over the VPC or VKB?

 

Availability is a major thing. Try to buy VPC/VKB throttle. Or just a hotas stick right now.

Availability is a major thing. Try to buy VPC/VKB throttle. Or just a hotas stick right now.

Last I saw VPC is running around 7-10 days to ship for the T-50 stick. Obviously that could have changed as well though.

And they at least have the throttle on the drawing board , last I saw was around the end of the year - could get pushed back as well I am sure. But they seem to be fairly ahead of VKB in the throttle department.

Thrustmaster was the standard only because it was the only sub-$1000 game in town.

The new standards are already in place: VKB/VPC.

Get a Warthog today, and forever have a back-of-your mind regret that you never got the best. Never even got a "great". Just an "OK-on-a-good-day". And definitely sucks, or, rather, sticks (heh! heh!), on a bad day.

Get a VKB today and know that you got the best. No regrets, no "what if's" and "if only's", no second guessing. Fine artisan Swiss-watch like craftsmanship, yet robust enough to throw your crate all over the sky. A highly functional work of art. For the icing on the cake, get a monster tech mount to go with it.

 

Get a VKB today and know that you got the best.

You can't get VKB today, that's my point. But you can start saving the money.... ;)

Anyway, there's one more issue - joystick size. All proposed joysticks are significantly bigger than X55. VPC is not even a desk joystick, requires extra mounting.

I currently use the Warthog. My previous setup was the X-55.

Today, I'd go VKB. The metal internals is the big thing for me. I'm spending a lot of money, I want a lot for it.

I have both the Virpil T-50 and the Gunfighter Pro.

I absolutely love my T-50 as previously mentioned, however in all fairness I have yet to hook up and use the Gunfighter Pro. I have been waiting, all this time, on the new MCG Pro grip for it. That was the reason I ordered the Gunfighter back in March, so yes I have been waiting quite a while for this grip.

In the meantime, Virpil managed to deliver on their complete stick, gimbal, desk mount, and extension set during this time and I have been happily flying with it for the last couple of months or so. And now they are working on a throttle release.

I had even considered cancelling my MCG Pro grip order, but I decided not to as I really wanted another quality stick setup to compare. Never hurts to have a good backup either, whichever one ends up taking that position.

From what I can tell so far, both Virpil and VKB offer a high quality stick with an all metal gimbal system that is very good.

It would seem to me the main difference, is in the fine tuning ability of the two. The Virpil has adjustment screws on top of the base, that is very easily used to adjust the tension on the springs for fine tuning especially around center.

The VKB has a dry clutch, to allow fine tuning their stick, even to the point of having it where one could move the stick and have the stick stay where it was moved to.

I have my Virpil currently setup in DCS for the Spitfire. I also enjoy flying the KA-50, and will probably wait and set up my Gunfighter Pro in it whenever I do finally receive the new grip for it. I could see the dry clutch mechanism coming in handy for choppers.

The other main difference is in Warthog adaptability, the Virpil is basically plug and play with the Warthog grip, or even the T-50 grip on the Warthog Base ( though not sure why anyone would want to use the Hog base with this stick). The VKB requires an adapter with a little installation involved to convert it.

Lastly, the Virpil stick is not to be desk top used, it is to be mounted to the desk - ideally center mounted. They offer the extension kit and desk mount bracket just for this, so all can be gotten from them. Once you have used a stick this way, no going back it is great.

The VKB Gunfighter Pro with the extension can be as well, but currently afaik would need to get a mounting system like Monster Tech or home made. The regular Gunfighter is designed to be set on the desk top.

I currently use the Warthog. My previous setup was the X-55.

 

Today, I'd go VKB. The metal internals is the big thing for me. I'm spending a lot of money, I want a lot for it.

>>> THIS

My WH has served me well. At some point I'll replace, and go with the VKB setup. But for now, I've no issues with it.

Definitely, you want the MCG Pro grip if you are going with the VKB stick. The wait is worth it --- a polished, professional, working product out-of-the-box, no rough corners, no short-cuts, no compromises, no dings and scratches, no poorly machined parts, no back-and-forth with tech support to literally smooth out the awful rough edges, no need to sandpaper/grind down parts yourself etc. etc.

But really in the mean time, while waiting for the MCG Pro, the KG-12 is also a polished professional product, working out of the box, and no slouch in the functionality department either, as I've discovered "making do" with the KG-12 grip for the last several months.

"Making do"?

Well, hardly, to be honest.

I've been flying the most of the aircraft that interest me without missing/wanting/needing any of the extra buttons/switches, and in most cases have buttons/switches to spare:

- Any WW2 bird, either in DCS (Spitfire, P-51, Dora, FW-190) or Il2 (too many to list!): trigger button fires, thumb button releases bombs/rockets, pinky for wheel brakes (when not mapped to rudder), 4-way unused mostly though in Spit I think I have it mapped to trim

- UH-1H Huey: trigger button ICS, thumb button to weapon release, 4-way: trim, trim release (2 buttons spare)

- Mi-8: as with Huey, except pinky for wheel brakes

- Gazelle: trigger to fire, thumb unused, 4-way to trim, pinky for autohover

- F-86: trigger to fire, everything else unmapped

- Mig-15: as with F-86, except plus pinky for wheel brakes

I am looking forward to the MCG Pro to pick up some of the little things that I currently click on the cockpit switches to do that can be a little awkward (e.g., switching the rotary to guns on the Mi-8, which currently needs me to flip to the co-pilot position), and, of course, to fly the more systems-heavy aircraft such as the F-18C or F-14. But honestly, the KG-12 is totally and fully functional for many, many, many, many, many, many, many hours of totally-immersive entertainment in the meantime. And, also honestly, I would take the VKB with 1 button over the WH (which I used to have) with x500 times the number of buttons any day!

Last I saw VPC is running around 7-10 days to ship for the T-50 stick. Obviously that could have changed as well though.

 

And they at least have the throttle on the drawing board , last I saw was around the end of the year - could get pushed back as well I am sure. But they seem to be fairly ahead of VKB in the throttle department.

7 days? Not going to happen..

I ordered VPC dual stick on the 20th of October... Several delays meant that the shipping was pushed back to 20th November... Well, it seems that they missed the 20th as well,

so it's actually about a month for them to ship...

still totally stoked about getting one though.

Definitely, you want the MCG Pro grip if you are going with the VKB stick. The wait is worth it --- a polished, professional, working product out-of-the-box, no rough corners, no short-cuts, no compromises, no dings and scratches, no poorly machined parts, no back-and-forth with tech support to literally smooth out the awful rough edges, no need to sandpaper/grind down parts yourself etc. etc.

Do you work for them or what? No one here has even seen the finished production MCG Pro, no to mention tested how it works, yet you talk like you had one for months.

I've been flying the most of the aircraft that interest me without missing/wanting/needing any of the extra buttons/switches, and in most cases have buttons/switches to spare:

Figures. None of the aircraft from your list has a Hotas setup in real life. Gazelle has a lot of buttons on the stick, but mostly for stuff we rarely use in the sim anyway.

I'm waiting for the MCG and new throttles myself, just pointing out that their current offer is quite limited.

I'm waiting for the MCG and new throttles myself, just pointing out that their current offer is quite limited.

Ditto, I'm waiting on VPC's throttle to hit the market to read some hands on feedback (because I, personally, place a small risk premium on VPC products given their early and on-going QC issues with the MT-50 cams) as well as VKB to show their cards on their throttles. Once I have all of that information, I will make my decision and move away from my WH.

Full disclosure: I have zero plans to use either the MCG or MT-50 grips, I only fly NATO so I will stick with the Warthog grip (for A-10C or F-16), the upcoming Hornet grip (for the F/A-8 and Harrier), as well as a VKB Tomcat grip (obviously, for the F-14B). Thus, I am just evaluating stick base and throttles only.

Do you work for them or what? No one here has even seen the finished production MCG Pro, no to mention tested how it works, yet you talk like you had one for months.

Perhaps I was unclear in my writing, or the nuances of what I was communicating was lost on you.

No, I do not work for them.

No, I was not singing praises of the MCG Pro throttle or any other product that I do not have.

No, I was not talking like I had one for months.

What I was saying was:

(a) If you are going VKB now, you want to get the full bells-and-whistles MCG Pro grip rather than the KG-12.

(b) VKB as a company puts out high quality products, polished, finished, and working out of the box, hence the wait for the MCG Pro grip will be worth it [ <-- this latter clarification, which was not explicitly spelled out in my original post might have been where you lost the track?]

© Yet, despite my statement in (a), I was pointing out if you fly a certain subgroup of modules offered by DCS (the majority, really, if you leave out the FC3 aircraft, and even then a substantial proportion), you don't need all those fancy buttons

(d) Regardless, I would take a stick without the fancy buttons for the its more sophisticated internals in a heartbeat (because, see my experience in [c]).

Is this clear enough for you to take things without wanting to know more details about my employment situation?