DCS Carrier Discussion

End of this month is very close :)

Next month.

:(

I've certainly had my share of dumb arguments, but I did not and would not advocate a SP release if that meant MP as a whole would stop working simply because of an SP release. That would qualify as a great big game breaking bug.

Now if MP stopped working because people who were told not to use it MP went ahead and used it MP anyway.... well, that's why they put childproof caps on medicine containers and those little stickers on the hair dryer telling you not to use it in the shower.

Delaying gives me more time to build missions, hopefully SC integrates easy.

I've got one ready to go on release day :)

Keep calm pilots let ED do their magic...

Where did they say it would be the end of next month?

Where did they say it would be the end of next month?

in the 80 page thread of reiterated stuff some of us already get, but had to be explained 80 times over again of how dcs works.

which instead of having 80 pages of how i think dcs should work, if we could just get updates posted w/out the users it would be nice.

wouldn't blame anyone for not knowing whats going on, b/c who in their right mind would want to begin to read through that.

While I don't agree with a lot of what Raytheon said, as he clearly doesn't understand the EA model ED uses. I find it interesting the response you gave. I struggle to find where any of that could be considered offensive. Clearly misinformed, yes, but not offensive. That misinformation is from two parts, 1. Raytheon himself not doing his homework on exactly what he was buying. 2. ED, and their communication issues. I'm not talking about production delays or bugs popping up. I think anyone can clearly understand those issues, current times not withstanding. I just talking communication in general. As someone above mentioned 175 some odd pages and NineLine is answering "detailed" questions over on Hoggit. Not here. Not on your own website. And a normal user had to be the one to transfer the post here. Why are we not seeing a problem here? And you wonder why people get upset or start making BS statements.

 

I'm not some doom and gloom guy here. I will still buy products from ED and 3rd party. I will still buy into EA. But you guys gotta get a handle on communication. People can hate on it if they want, but ED's process for the 15th was STONE COLD WRONG to wait until "release" day to give us any information about what was happening. I get working to the wire to try and get it released, but if you're still working 5 minutes before "release", and you ain't told nobody anything other than announcing an announcement, it's probably too late.

+1. Communication HAS to be better. They said that they will learn from what happened on 4/15 and it is now 4/27 with still, no "official" update. What is strange about this situation is not a lot of reasonable people are asking for a rushed release of a buggy product. They are asking to be in the loop as customers.

I too will continue to buy everything ED puts out. I also bought the Viggen to support HeatBlur and have never even opened the module. Most everyone here wants to support team ED.

...which instead of having 80 pages of how i think dcs should work, if we could just get updates posted w/out the users it would be nice...

I think that's what the mini-updates are for.

Where did they say it would be the end of next month?

Long story short, Kate gave an April-May/2020 time frame. They will see what the status' of the issues are around that time to see what they can do about a release.

The problem is people keep talking out of their ass and answering questions meant for the developers!

Every sim/games forum it is the same thing = lack of communication. Be it a racing sim, flight sim, first person shooter and so on. Doesn’t matter the size of organisation, the communication is “terrible”

That isn’t whataboutism - the others are bad so it is ok here - it is an observation on sim/games communities everywhere.

Having worked in corporate IT the expectations in the gaming world for detailed information, timescales for updates and the sheer analysis of the product, way of working and every word uttered from staff seem insatiable. Notwithstanding the ability to be blunt and rude that wouldn’t be tolerated between employees in a corporate world.

That isn’t to say it is a bad thing, the level of enthusiasm and sheer effort that goes in to micro analysing the product must surely pay dividends in terms of feedback even if their appears an insane amount of white noise to sift through to get it.

One big developer, accused of poor communication, said that the best feedback is when customers discuss as if the developer isn’t there, as once they enter the discussion, expectations can change and instead of being an open debate it becomes a recorded statement of intention “such and said on such a date that they would add this feature” when it was simply an idea being floated.

My experience goes all the way back to Usenet and I recall an enthusiastic Microsoft employee engaging a race sim community about Cart Precision Racing (20 odd years ago!). He had a young baby so was up all hours and posting on the forums. I watched as his enthusiasm for the community was sucked from him to the point he threw the towel in. I have seen it ever since and community managers need to have the thickest skin.

The shame is that there are many enthusiasts who want to have an equal dialogue with the developers, not some angry customer/supplier relationship. It does happen but unfortunately the latter seems rife in every gaming and sim community out there and it is to each community’s loss IMHO.

My experience goes all the way back to Usenet and I recall an enthusiastic Microsoft employee engaging a race sim community about Cart Precision Racing (20 odd years ago!). He had a young baby so was up all hours and posting on the forums. I watched as his enthusiasm for the community was sucked from him to the point he threw the towel in. I have seen it ever since and community managers need to have the thickest skin.

Good points, but things have changed - in particular, pre-sale and early access. Taking people's money then not communicating, especially if dates get missed, will damage confidence and make selling subsequent EA products much harder

Good points, but things have changed - in particular, pre-sale and early access. Taking people's money then not communicating, especially if dates get missed, will damage confidence and make selling subsequent EA products much harder

In fairness to the community here it is a million times more mature than the typical games community. You only have to check out release (full not EA) weeks on their forums for true world ending stuff!

I would just love to see a more enthusiast to enthusiast discussion rather than the customer is king approach which is IMHO more appropriate for the kind of relationship someone might have with a faceless mobile provider but it seems impossible outside of closed alpha/beta groups. Just my naivety I guess!

Nah it was the compression coil.

Flux Capacitor

Yes, that release Kate talks about considering (that you comment on in #1885) is exactly the one that was referred to! So now you agree that release would not break multiplayer?

Not what I meant. I said IF it would be just the SC not "working" in MP it would simply require a disclaimer about not using it in MP for now.

As they did NOT release and made clear there is more than that. (More or less confirmed later through the whole carriers getting messed up), I pointed out it would break the game.

The argument about the 70/30 percent decision being dumb was related to the fact that such a decision would open the road to future game breaking decisions. E.g. a fictional 80% of the customer base uses the Hornet and Viper, so it is ok to deliberately break the F-14B or F-86F, because only 20% uses them...? Or a patch released despite being aware it breaks Jet engine modeling, but only x amount plays modern stuff, the majority plays WWII Warbirds or vice versa.

It was NOT about releasing a SC that simply don't work in MP, but everyone could try it in SP and still fly MP only without the SC until fixed. That would have been great, but as I pointed out not an option, it seems.

And to be precise: It is the idea of deliberately splitting and agitating the community, with all the aforementioned implications NOT Beirut or any other Forum member or fellow DCS player or person.

+1. Communication HAS to be better. They said that they will learn from what happened on 4/15 and it is now 4/27 with still, no "official" update. What is strange about this situation is not a lot of reasonable people are asking for a rushed release of a buggy product. They are asking to be in the loop as customers.

 

I too will continue to buy everything ED puts out. I also bought the Viggen to support HeatBlur and have never even opened the module. Most everyone here wants to support team ED.

ED put forum managers to keep us informed of progress, WHEN there is progress or at least any reliable change in status.

Wags informs us regularly, shows progress videos and new features bin development.

Even Kate herself dedicated at least 2 Workdays (!) worth of her time to inform and openly discuss with the community.

What kind of "more" communication would you expect from a business?

...and about the official update, what do you perceive as more "official" than Kate (the Boss of Eagle Dynamics!) Infos here?

I am sure everybody would love to see the developers dedicating 2-3 hours of their daily worktime to reporting their work results and status here on the forum, every day to keep us informed, instead of getting said work done?!

ED put forum managers to keep us informed of progress, WHEN there is progress or at least any reliable change in status.

Wags informs us regularly, shows progress videos and new features bin development.

Even Kate herself dedicated at least 2 Workdays (!) worth of her time to inform and openly discuss with the community.

What kind of "more" communication would you expect from a business?

...and about the official update, what do you perceive as more "official" than Kate (the Boss of Eagle Dynamics!) Infos here?

nailed it

I am sure everybody would love to see the developers dedicating 2-3 hours of their daily worktime to reporting their work results and status here on the forum, every day to keep us informed, instead of getting said work done?!

Straw man argument. Nowhere was a requirement for devs to spend hours on these forums mentioned in that post. Besides, that's not a dev job anyway.

There wouldn't be these constant requests for info if the salient points were put in a sticky for people to easily find. That wouldn't take much time at all to do.

MAC, being a separate product, does not impact DCS feature releases as long as there is another team doing it. Although if the Kuz team is busy with MAC then the above could be true as well.

Can't wait!

I am sure everybody would love to see the developers dedicating 2-3 hours of their daily worktime to reporting their work results and status here on the forum, every day to keep us informed, instead of getting said work done?!

ED put forum managers to keep us informed of progress, WHEN there is progress or at least any reliable change in status.

Wags informs us regularly, shows progress videos and new features bin development.

Even Kate herself dedicated at least 2 Workdays (!) worth of her time to inform and openly discuss with the community.

What kind of "more" communication would you expect from a business?

...and about the official update, what do you perceive as more "official" than Kate (the Boss of Eagle Dynamics!) Infos here?

Nailed what? Who the hell is asking for that? How about a sentence. Nobody needs a page and half full of updates. The community also does not need huge development updates, full of information that is irrelevant. God bless you if you believe that all of that "news" on 4/15 was planned for the day of the Super Carrier release. That's what the mini-updates are for. Look at the date of the last one.

So yes, communication has to be better, and they already have admitted that they messed up and will improve.

Steve

So yes, communication has to be better

... or else?

Quite honestly, nothing wrong with waiting patiently like normal people would without constantly asking for some form of communication. We already know what's coming, the only thing left for us - the community - is to wait for it.