[FIXED INTERNALLY] Wind not accounted for in flight model and display.

I wonder where you got this information from. it is simple physics or there must be a misunderstanding. When i say wind can affect the FM i mean something like this:

 

This is an example of how wind affects landing

You’re not understanding the point. Wind effects the ground track of the aircraft. But it does not effect how the aircraft flies or its performance. There should be no difference in maximum speed, climb rate or stall speed with or against wind - as is currently the state with the F-16.

This is an example of how wind affects landing

You are comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about steady wind which has zero, no, nil effect on an aircraft in flight.

Your example shows the transition from air to ground and that's the only point (and vice versa of course) where wind does have an effect.

You’re not understanding the point. Wind effects the ground track of the aircraft. But it does not effect how the aircraft flies or its performance. There should be no difference in maximum speed, climb rate or stall speed with or against wind - as is currently the state with the F-16.

Absolutely not, the aerodynamics do not change but the consequences still, the plane as well as the wind have mass and inertia and are subject to gravity. For exaple tail wind affect climb.

You are comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about steady wind which has zero, no, nil effect on an aircraft in flight.

Your example shows the transition from air to ground and that's the only point (and vice versa of course) where wind does have an effect.

I'm talking about steady wind wich has affect on an aircraft in flight but not on the ground.

Videos are clear, look for extreme crosswind landing, the aircraft is in the air when wind affect it

Absolutely not, the aerodynamics do not change but the consequences still, the plane as well as the wind have mass and inertia and are subject to gravity.

 

I'm talking about steady wind wich has affect on an aircraft in flight but not on the ground.

 

Videos are clear, look for extreme crosswind landing

As I have already said repeatedly, steady state wind effects the aircrafts ground speed and ground track, but nothing else.

Turning downwind won’t cause you to stall.

As I have already said repeatedly, steady state wind effects the aircrafts ground speed and ground track, but nothing else.

Turning downwind won’t cause you to stall.

Steady state wind effects all the flight, and crosswind landings are proof of this, for example it happens if the pilot decides to go 90° to the wind direction, do you think it doesn't influence?

Think not to stall with tailwind? A plane travels at 100kts with a frontal wind of 50kts, this plane has a stall speed of 75kts, if we assume to rotate the wind direction 180° in an instant, we will have an aerodynamic relative speed of:

V= Vairplane - Vwind = 50kts

50 is below stall speed and the aircraft will aerodynamically stall.

While the ground speed will be:

Vplane + Vwind = 150kts

Steady state wind effects all the flight, and crosswind landings are proof of this, for example it happens if the pilot decides to go 90° to the wind direction, do you think it doesn't influence?

Think not to stall with tailwind? A plane travels at 100kts with a frontal wind of 50kts, this plane has a stall speed of 75kts, if we assume to rotate the wind direction 180 ° in an instant, we will have an aerodynamic relative speed of:

 

V= Vairplane - Vwind = 50kts

 

50 is below stall speed and the aircraft will aerodynamically stall.

 

While the ground speed will be:

Vplane + Vwind = 150kts

Sorry. That’s not how real aircraft work. They don’t rotate 180 degrees in an instant. As you turn downwind the aircraft will maintain whatever airspeed you have entering the turn. I’ve personally flown repeated circles in 80 knot winds at high altitude and the airspeed needle doesn’t fluctuate from when I turn into wind and down wind. Crosswind Landings have nothing to do with what I’m saying. As I’ve said again and again the wind will alter the ground track of the aircraft, which is why you have to angle into wind to fly a ground track that is parallel to the runway.

Guys, steady state winds only affect ground tracking (movement of plane in relation to ground), hence why it's important for landings, but it's not going to effect how the aircraft performs in the air.

Guys, steady state winds only affect ground tracking (movement of plane in relation to ground), hence why it's important for landings, but it's not going to effect how the aircraft performs in the air.

Is a plane in the air before landing? I would say yes so steady state winds affect for all the fly

...which is why you have to angle into wind to fly a ground track that is parallel to the runway...

And that's because the constant wind impacts the performance of the aircraft when it is in the air regardless of how the graund speed changes. The lateral impact of the wind affects the FM, wind is a force.

The Falcon, imagine for a moment that there is no earth or even any other aircraft, there is only air.

Now tell me, what is wind?

And that's because the constant wind impacts the performance of the aircraft when it is in the air regardless of how the graund speed changes. The lateral impact of the wind affects the FM, wind is a force.

No. The wind doesn’t effect the performance of the aircraft. It effects how the aircraft moves in relation to the ground. Those are two very different things.

Sorry. That’s not how real aircraft work. They don’t rotate 180 degrees in an instant.

It was an example to say that if your relative speed is below the stall speed, even if you had a tailwind of 600km/h you would fall! gravity exists.

The Falcon, imagine for a moment that there is no earth or even any other aircraft, there is only air.

Now tell me, what is wind?

I understand what you mean but you're wrong.

The point is that if the air moves in one direction, and constant "to the earth that is firm" and you pilot want to go to a specific point on earth, you have to deal with the wind, it is very simple, it is what happens during the crosswind landing, during the takeoff with headwind when the climb performance is greater than no-wind and much greater than tailwind.

So constant wind effect at all the plane in the air because due to the gravity laws all things are moving in their respective center of gravity(center of the earth)

So "I'm wrong", and, quite separately, things going from side to side affect things up and down. Ok.

Good luck.

...things going from side to side affect things up and down....

exactly, because up and down depends on gravity while if the wind comes from the right it is clear that that force will move you (relative to the ground) to the left, but not only, if it comes from behind and it is sufficient to make your relative speed lower or equal to the stall speed, the plane will fall.

So wind affect the FM

during the takeoff with headwind when the climb performance is greater than no-wind and much greater than tailwind.

Nope. Absolutely not.

The takeoff roll will be shorter in a headwind and longer with a tailwind but the climb performance of the aircraft will be the same. If the aircraft can climb at 2000ft per min, it will climb the same in a headwind or a tail wind. The ONLY time wind effects aircraft performance is when the aircraft is touching the ground - during a takeoff or landing roll.

Airspeed will still be airspeed, regardless of which way the wind is coming from in relation to your A/C. Your ground track and ground speed, will however be greatly affected. As many others have said.

Nope. Absolutely not.

The takeoff roll will be shorter in a headwind and longer with a tailwind but the climb performance of the aircraft will be the same. If the aircraft can climb at 2000ft per min, it will climb the same in a headwind or a tail wind. The ONLY time wind effects aircraft performance is when the aircraft is touching the ground - during a takeoff or landing roll.

That's a contradiction. Climb change with the wind. When headwinding, the wind speed is added to that of the aircraft speed, this is because aerodynamically the lift is produced with the advance of the wings in the air. More lift = more climb, more climb = more ft/min and vice versa. So an aircraft with the tailwind will climb slowly.

Airspeed will still be airspeed, regardless of which way the wind is coming from in relation to your A/C. Your ground track and ground speed, will however be greatly affected. As many others have said.

So are you saying that if an airplane does not have wheels on the ground the constant wind does not influence it regardless of its direction? regardless of which route the pilot decides?

Look what cofcorpse said

As I understand, you consider wind as navigational thing. In simulation we can roughly divide flight model to two parts - material point (which uses ground speed) and aerodynamic forces (which use airspeed). If one of the parts use incorrect speed, total result will be wrong.

I hope this brief explanation will clarify situtation a bit.

This applies in simulation but also in reality, it is very similar. The flight model can be divided into the aerodynamic part and the part more related to simple physics, such as gravity and inertia. Planes have mass, therefore inertia and suffer gravity. Same thing for the wind. When a pilot has to land in a 90 degree wind for example, the pilot has to maneuver to keep the course, do you know what this means? means that the (constant) wind affects the aircraft! This is because the wind exists when the atmosphere does not move together with the rotation of the earth! wind is a force! it is not a magical thing that only applies when the tires touch the ground:doh:

When a pilot has to land in a 90 degree wind for example, the pilot has to maneuver to keep the course, do you know what this means? means that the (constant) wind affects the aircraft!

I don't know how often we have to repeat this. Steady wind only affects ground speed and ground track, both have nothing to do with aircraft performance.

The aicraft is climbing at a fixed IAS. If the optimum climb speed is e.g. 300kias the aicraft will climb best at this speed.

If there's a 100kts head or tailwind doesn't matter concerning climb performance. Climb rate will be the same at 200kts groundspeed and at 400kts groundspeed.

Again, once ground comes into play, like during landing, things will change. If there's an obstacle in your way after takeoff at a fixed distance, the aircraft will be lower over the obstacle in a tailwind condition than in a headwind condition.

During landing wind only has an impact on the aircraft because you need to correct your heading (or keep the downwind wing low and apply opposite rudder) to maintain the runway heading.

But performance doesn't change. It makes no difference on which heading you are flying.

For a goldfish isn't doesn't matter and it makes no difference if he swimming in his goldfishbowl while it sits steady on a desk or if it's travelling in a car at 100mph.

As cofcorpse mentioned, you are talking about navigation which means the aircraft id moving relative to the ground. But it's about aerodynamics which don't affect performance.

If you still don't believe/understand it and you don't believe real world pilots, there are lots of documents in the net for you to read.

One more item that might help in understanding this issue.

If an airliner takes off in a 40kts crosswind, climbs with V2 +10kts and turns 90deg into the 40kts taiilwind, it would stall according to your theory....but apparently this doesn't happen IRL.

I don't know how often we have to repeat this. Steady wind only affects ground speed and ground track, both have nothing to do with aircraft performance.

 

The aicraft is climbing at a fixed IAS. If the optimum climb speed is e.g. 300kias the aicraft will climb best at this speed.

If there's a 100kts head or tailwind doesn't matter concerning climb performance. Climb rate will be the same at 200kts groundspeed and at 400kts groundspeed.

 

Again, once ground comes into play, like during landing, things will change. If there's an obstacle in your way after takeoff at a fixed distance, the aircraft will be lower over the obstacle in a tailwind condition than in a headwind condition.

 

During landing wind only has an impact on the aircraft because you need to correct your heading (or keep the downwind wing low and apply opposite rudder) to maintain the runway heading.

But performance doesn't change. It makes no difference on which heading you are flying.

 

For a goldfish isn't doesn't matter and it makes no difference if he swimming in his goldfishbowl while it sits steady on a desk or if it's travelling in a car at 100mph.

 

As cofcorpse mentioned, you are talking about navigation which means the aircraft id moving relative to the ground. But it's about aerodynamics which don't affect performance.

 

If you still don't believe/understand it and you don't believe real world pilots, there are lots of documents in the net for you to read.

 

One more item that might help in understanding this issue.

If an airliner takes off in a 40kts crosswind, climbs with V2 +10kts and turns 90deg into the 40kts taiilwind, it would stall according to your theory....but apparently this doesn't happen IRL.

No sorry but you are wrong and also in contradiction. Imop you all, are misunderstanding things written and you cannot understand what you see with your eyes.

You contradicted yourself about climbing. If you climb slower because of the tailwind there will be a reason? the reason is that the wind influences the climb rate because the relative speed changes, and by relative speed I mean the speed that generates the aerodynamic forces in the absence of wind, so headwind= more portance= fast climb.

Do you say during the landing the pilot has to correct the crosswind? And doesn't this mean that the constant wind influences the flight?

The plane does not change its shape or it's aerodynamic characteristics, but the way it performs changes according to the wind direction.

For the last part; the wings produce lift when they advance in the air, or when the wind hits them from the front, if wind hit the rear, they no longer generate lift, no lift= stall

This is a video of how the headwind interacts with the aircraft from the front, if it had been from the side, things would have been much clearer but use the imagination..

Some DCS fun wind :)

Imop you all, are misunderstanding things written and you cannot understand what you see with your eyes.

You contradicted yourself about climbing. If you climb slower because of the tailwind there will be a reason?

Ok, I give up. It's apparently useless trying to explain anything to you.

Concerning climb. I wrote exactly the opposite!!!

One more time: If there's a 100kts head or tailwind doesn't matter concerning climb performance. Climb rate will be the same at 200kts groundspeed and at 400kts groundspeed.

Isn't it strange that most aircraft in DCS and in all other flightsims are fundamentally wrong in your opinion.

For the last time, your video shows that wind affects the airplane only in relationship to the ground, but I know, that's not what you want to read.

Bye.

This looks like quality trolling to me now which really has absolutely no place in the bugs section. However, I will make one more post that I hope will help anyone who is genuinely interested in learning how planes fly.

Horizontal wind has nothing to do with climb rate. The only things that can affect climb rate are drag, thrust, gravity, and vertical wind (updraft/downdraft).

In the example given by bbrz, the reason the aircraft would be lower over the obstacle in a tailwind condition is because it has less time to climb before reaching the obstacle due to higher ground speed which is the only thing the wind is affecting. The climb rate is exactly the same.

Things going from side to side do not affect things up and down.

And remember, the only things that affect indicated airspeed are drag, thrust, and air density. Wind cannot change neither drag nor thrust, and we're not talking about changing air density. As wind hits the aircraft from behind it is met with the very same opposing force as static air is met with, and since drag does not change the aircraft is propelled at the very same indicated airspeed, only ground speed has changed.

Do you say during the landing the pilot has to correct the crosswind? And doesn't this mean that the constant wind influences the flight?

No, it influences the landing as the aircraft will have to correct it's direction in relation with the ground in order to avoid veering off track ones the tires hit the ground. The flight of the aircraft won't be affected at all, i.e. aircraft performance stays unchanged.

Only gusts of wind & turbulence will impact and be felt by an aircraft in flight.

In short steady state winds only impacts an aircraft in 3 ways:

Ground track

Ground speed

Range (over ground, obviously)

Flight characteristics & performance stays unchanged