Chuck's JF-17 Thunder Guide

11 hours ago, BigBorner said:

No the ranging is always active. It’s the manual laser target designation for weapons. 

Ah copy that, "LSD" flashes with the LSR button pressed. Got confused with the "LSR" abbreviation for ranging.  

AG radar MAP submode issue. On pages 179-181 the guide says that S2 left will cycle between the MAP submodes RBM, EXP, DBS1, and DBS2. I think that used to be the case. However S2 left now cycles between the major AG modes: MAP, GMTI, SEA1, SEA2, WA, TA, and (sometimes) AGR. This also affects the HOTAS chart on page 129. Personally I liked the old function and wonder why this changed. I can't find any mention of the change. Now the only way to access the MAP submodes is through the corresponding OSB button.

It would also help to have some documentation for AGR mode. I keep finding the radar in this mode and do not understand it. I don't seem to be able to turn it off if there is a designated SPI.

Hope it doesn't sound like I'm complaining! Chuck's Guide is especially indispensible for the JF-17 since there is no official manual in English.

EDIT: I realized after posting this that the cycling I described is what you get when you use S2 left from one of the AG radar modes while in NAV master mode. It works as described in Chuck's Guide if you go into AG Master Mode first. I'd still like to see some description of the AGR mode however. Is there any documentation?

1 hour ago, sthompson said:

AG radar MAP submode issue. On pages 179-181 the guide says that S2 left will cycle between the MAP submodes RBM, EXP, DBS1, and DBS2. I think that used to be the case. However S2 left now cycles between the major AG modes: MAP, GMTI, SEA1, SEA2, WA, TA, and (sometimes) AGR. This also affects the HOTAS chart on page 129. Personally I liked the old function and wonder why this changed. I can't find any mention of the change. Now the only way to access the MAP submodes is through the corresponding OSB button.

Open beta latest? I've just tested it and it works for me - S2 left in Center MFCD AG Radar cycles RBM, EXP, DBS1,2. (S2 right cancels EXP/DBS and changes RBM Azimuth.)

1 hour ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

Open beta latest? I've just tested it and it works for me - S2 left in Center MFCD AG Radar cycles RBM, EXP, DBS1,2. (S2 right cancels EXP/DBS and changes RBM Azimuth.)

 

Yes. My mistake. See edited post.

8 hours ago, sthompson said:

Yes. My mistake. See edited post.

No worries, yeah documentation apart from Chuck's is lacking. Deka's Chinese Flight Manual (336 pages) was completed and is in C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\JF-17\Doc. It has yet to be translated to English. But you can make out the topics as they kept the English abbreviations like RBM, FTT, DBS, etc plus you have the familiar diagrams. If you are willing, you could zoom in on specific topics and Google translate or use ChatGPT. Section 5.2 might be what you are looking for. It's a hassle but might help with getting some needed info. ChatGPT sample below.  

In the current version, page 130, HOTAS throttle controls, the column headings for AA master mode don't make any sense. That is, there are two groups of columns both labelled for INTC mode. Furthermore, four of the column headings are labelled the same thing. I think these are probably supposed to be the same column headings as on the previous page (i.e. for HOTAS stick controls).

3 hours ago, sthompson said:

In the current version, page 130, HOTAS throttle controls, the column headings for AA master mode don't make any sense. That is, there are two groups of columns both labelled for INTC mode. Furthermore, four of the column headings are labelled the same thing. I think these are probably supposed to be the same column headings as on the previous page (i.e. for HOTAS stick controls).

It's the table copied from the old draft English Quick Guide by Deka. The table in the updated Chinese Flight Manual by Deka (page 296) looks like this:

One question related to the Chuck's guide and using WMD-7 with A-A master mode.  https://chucksguides.com/aircraft/dcs/jf-17/#pfe9

1. I turned on the WMD7 on ground and waited for alignment to complete.

2. The Pod can be used in A-G mode just fine

3. I switch to A-A and configure the left MFD to display WMD7 of pod supage

4. I can see the POD is Idle and I can not uncage it

How do I use this feature?

I this feature dropped or is this a bug?

4 hours ago, okopanja said:

I this feature dropped or is this a bug?

My understanding is that the WMD7 was never meant to be used in A/A mode, and it was recently dropped in DCS to be more accurate to the real aircraft. It's a shame though, I used to love using the laser guided rockets to take out helicopters in conjunction with the A/A radar 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:01 PM, Solo Wing said:

was never meant to be used in A/A mode

That's disputed by the vendor of the Aselpod, Aselsan. 

https://www.aselsan.com/en/defence/product/2887/aselpod

@Napillo It's a completely different pod, Aselpod is Turkish and WMD7 is Chinese

On 2/14/2024 at 12:05 AM, okopanja said:

I this feature dropped or is this a bug?

It wasnt dropped since it was never in there. I found a 3 years old German tutorial that said that you can not use the BRM-1 in a2a mode and that the radar is not available in a2g mode.

45 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

It wasnt dropped since it was never in there. I found a 3 years old German tutorial that said that you can not use the BRM-1 in a2a mode and that the radar is not available in a2g mode.

 

If you carefully look into the Chuck's manual you can see that the target is tracked with radar in STT mode, the WMD7 is slaved to it with no actual lock.

At some point this did work for sure the question is why it was removed? One answer could be that construction of WMD-7 prevents slewing it above the line of horizon (e.g. for targets on above own altitude). Still I see no physical reason why it could not be used for target that are below the line of the horizon. I was tempted to create a bug report, but have realized that this was likely removed intentionally.

And yes, BRM-1 is very cool weapon, e.g. I actually was able to utilized it to target slow flying helicopters (below doppler notch) utilizing GMTI -> WMD7 -> BRM-1. In this case as soon as I locked it with WMD-7, GMTI was freed to search for other ground targets.

GMTI presents some interesting options, including maddog-ing SD-10 at short range against helicopter.

The WMD7 was definitely abled to be slaved to AA Radar Targets in AA Master mode. Then they took it away. It’s somewhere in the release notes 

Well, perhaps this is a point for updating the manual, but it appears that a number of A-G weapons in Jeff stopped working properly with 2.9. So maybe it is premature to update the manual.

I wish in general that such technical decisions would be more clearly documented along the reasons.

I mean, it’s chucks guide. He’s just a dude doing that because he likes it and does not have any obligations to update it. It’s up to Deka to provide a proper and updated manual. 

1 minute ago, BigBorner said:

I mean, it’s chucks guide. He’s just a dude doing that because he likes it and does not have any obligations to update it. It’s up to Deka to provide a proper and updated manual. 

I think you misunderstood me: Chuck is great! It filled the holes from official manual pretty good. However I was having second thoughts if this should be reported as JF-17 bug, and figured out it was more sensible to comment here.

vor 8 Minuten schrieb okopanja:

I think you misunderstood me: Chuck is great! It filled the holes from official manual pretty good. However I was having second thoughts if this should be reported as JF-17 bug, and figured out it was more sensible to comment here.

Oh okay, yeah seems I did. 
 

However, the pod not working in AA anymore isn’t a bug. It was intentionally removed a few updates ago. 

On 2/16/2024 at 11:25 AM, BigBorner said:

However, the pod not working in AA anymore isn’t a bug. It was intentionally removed a few updates ago. 

It was actually removed recently on October 19th 2023. with 2.9.0.46801 releases:

Quote

Tweaked: WMD7 can be turned on only under AG master mode per updated info

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.9.0.46801/