Black Shark 3?

That large one is a laser rangefinder/designator, low light/say TV, and FLIR....and well, and so is the small one. :D They installed the larger one first, and the smaller one replaced the Shkval sometime later.

The larger one was called Samshit-50 or Samshit-50T, and the small one I don't know but I see it referred to as a GOES pod but that's kind of a generic term. It may have only been a testing prototype. Sounds familiar? :)

There is no "third A-A rail" with the Iglas.

 

It's been asked repeatedly, but if anyone can find an image of a Ka-50 with a third rail - please show it, everyone is waiting (& wondering why people keep insisting it exists).

 

Even the initial Ka-52 didn't have it.

While not a KA-50, it is the KA-50-2 "Erdogan", that was the Kamov + Israel cooperation result of tandem cockpit version of the KA-50 for the Turkey, China and India.

And this is before KA-52 project was finished, 1997.

As one of the above images, you can see that the wings are removable so if there is wiring, you would only need to swap the wings to the version that has the third pylon under the wintip pods.

Of course it is as well possibility that the KA-52 received that upgrade from the KA-50-2 project itself.

The main difference between KA-50 and KA-50-2 is just the cockpit. Everything behind the pilot at rear is the same.

For those who think it activates the invisible third pylon - what do you think you push to uncage the seeker ?

You think that you push the A-A mode in the station selector hat to uncage the IGLA gyro?

But not automatically when selecting the IGLA it would go to gyro stabilization and signal with audio when locked and trigger launches missile?

Man this thing is amazing!! Wish we could get it!

Looks like the same Ka-50 wing. They just welded another pylon right at the tip before the flare ejector. Would love to see a real Ka-52 be modeled. Or as close an unclassified prototype as we can get to it.

And actually, it's carrying R-73?, instead of igla's. Seeing how crammed it is, I'm guessing Ka-52 wing is slightly longer, since it's shown with the 3rd pylon closer in and carrying a brace of igla's.

Nice Ka-52 Russian video I found on the internet. From Combat Approved.

https://rtd.rt.com/series/combat-approved-series/ka-52-alligator-strike-helicopter/

Around 8:52 or so, you can see the iglas mounted on the wing. Also, nice shots of the President-S system throughout the video.

Looks like the same Ka-50 wing. They just welded another pylon right at the tip before the flare ejector. Would love to see a real Ka-52 be modeled. Or as close an unclassified prototype as we can get to it.

I don't probably have now means to overlay KA-52, KA-50 and KA-50-2 images to see what size the wings are on each of them, but I would guess that KA-50-2 has similar to KA-52.

But one thing that always made me wonder is, that why the KA-50 wingtip pods were so far away from the Vikhr? Like comparing to Mi-24 etc the wings ends with the pylons.

Like here is the KA-52 prototype with just two pylons:

And actually, it's carrying R-73?, instead of igla's. Seeing how crammed it is, I'm guessing Ka-52 wing is slightly longer, since it's shown with the 3rd pylon closer in and carrying a brace of igla's.

Yes, the KA-50 has as well the R-73 in some of the images on the ground.

But likely this blow-up picture is from a model kit or something, as it as well shows R-60 on it:

And again notice just a two pylons on the wings.

Sad that it is not better quality so it could be "studied" little better.

As well that site has written that R-73 and R-60 are available for the KA-50.

And as well interesting claim,

Around 8:52 or so, you can see the iglas mounted on the wing. Also, nice shots of the President-S system throughout the video.

Interesting part is as well that the KA-52 has the triple rack for IGLA-S, not two-rack. So carrying six IGLA's is very big load. And if the KA-52 as well allows to carry the double racks, it would make 12 IGLA possibility. But likely weight limitation is there.

And then two KA-50 with the different nose design, Skhval at different way:

The middle one has the Skhval at the tip of the nose, while the third on the right has the Skhval on "jaw", under the nose.

Interesting part is as well that the KA-52 has the triple rack for IGLA-S, not two-rack.

It's two. Look closer.

I don't get why you persist in flogging a dead horse - just accept that the Ka-50 never had a third set of pylons.

WRT to your post above, the significant part is:

(...) not a KA-50 (...)

Perhaps Kamov intended to add extra pylons, perhaps they didn't. Maybe it was Elbit's idea...

Kamov didn't add them to initial builds of the Ka-52 which were built after the Ka-50-2.

Perhaps they dreamed that one day there'd be ground mapping radar in the Ka-50 - it's added to the Ka-29, why shouldn't we have it here too ?

In the end, they didn't do either thing, and asking for them to be added to a module is asking for imaginary features.

If you really want to get E.D. to add extra pylons because you think it would improve gameplay, that's fine - just ask for that...

I don't get why you persist in flogging a dead horse - just accept that the Ka-50 never had a third set of pylons.[\quote]

 

 

Maybe you should relax as you can't follow the discussion.

 

 

WRT to your post above, the significant part is:[/Quote]

 

 

Yes, do you really think that I don't know that I wrote that?

 

Why to be so nasty?

 

 

 

Perhaps Kamov intended to add extra pylons, perhaps they didn't. Maybe it was Elbit's idea...

 

Kamov didn't add them to initial builds of the Ka-52 which were built after the Ka-50-2.

 

 

 

Perhaps they dreamed that one day there'd be ground mapping radar in the Ka-50 - it's added to the Ka-29, why shouldn't we have it here too ?[/Quote]

 

Why do you beat dead horse?

 

 

 

In the end, they didn't do either thing, and asking for them to be added to a module is asking for imaginary features.[/Quote]

 

Relax. I am not doing anything like that, at one moment have I asked them to be added to the module.

 

Read my posts again of you can't follow the discussion.

 

 

 

If you really want to get E.D. to add extra pylons because you think it would improve gameplay, that's fine - just ask for that...

 

I am not going to even touch at your strawman....

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

It's two. Look closer.

Looks to be same as this.

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

There won't be third pylon. Now get over it and move on

There won't be third pylon. Now get over it and move on

Who is saying there will be?

Can't some of you people just forget the "ED needs to do this or that" and just take a civilized discussion that what is out there, what are some reasons that there are made by some decision etc?

Not all discussions are "ED needs to make 100% realistic module like I see it in this one place".

The argument was that no other than KA-52 has had a three pylons, and even not in the early version. Well, the fact just happen to be that one KA-50 variant, tandem seated one that was not part of the KA-52 project, happened to have a three pylons before KA-50 or KA-52 projects were even finished! And the earliest reports about a separate IGLA attachments from the two pylons are before any of the three pylon wings helicopters existed or plans of KA-52 existed!

The fact just happens to be that Kamov did not build a whole new KA-50 just so they can move a one instrument in the cockpit to other location, or that they could add a new weapon compatibility via software.

The fact is that after the engines, fuselage etc were finalized for a given size and performance, the different versions were modified time after time at various ways.

The Port #18 was not in the build time same as it was couple years later, then it got more feature after time that ED has had access to #25, and the various other versions has gone through upgrades from test versions to serial production standard, to upgraded serial production standard and finally meant to be build for military.

You can't take a #18 and say that "It is this, it has always been this kind". You need to as well define is it from 1997, 2003, 2006 or 2012.

If you can't discuss about the KA-50 design and modifications history without drawing all from "But it is not like ED saw it before 2001-2006 they released BS" (because they need the years to develop the module, first to do the research and get access to the versions they use before they start the modeling, coding etc) and anything that is modified, changed after their time with it, is not in it.

We do not know what kind variants there really has been. It is very mysterious project and what can be seen is that there has not been just a couple avionic layout changes but as well very big full fuselage redesigns, wing redesigns, weapons layout and targeting system redesigns etc. All that didn't even get applied to latest ones but were on previous ones.

So if they have done all kind things, who knows what other kind versions and possibilities there has been that we just do not know.

Just like that the KA-52 was not the first one to have a three pylon wing, it was the KA-50 itself at least in one of its variants, and that was three years before even the chechen war when it was flight operational.

And here we are now with the possible "BS3" upgrade, for a over decade has people like you argued that KA-50 never had any MWS. That KA-50 never had any A-A missiles. That KA-50 never had FLIR. That KA-50 never had this and that and those and these. And how the KA-50 we have is unrealistic and just abandoned prototype etc.

Well, all that has been just BS. Declared facts based to lack of information.

And now decades later, when the curtains from the information gets lifted here and there, more all kind features are revealed. Where every small information symbolize something, and actually more we know, less we know.

And if people here can not discuss about possibilities, but only impossibilities, they are better to just ignore everyone else who has more interest to find logic, design decisions, changes and possibilities, because you just have the interest to stick what you had for a decade and you thought you know, instead that what there actually was, and what are possibilities.

And none of that means that we MUST get them. That we WILL get them.

As only ED does know WHAT we do get.

For over a decade KA-50 module has been in state with many instruments with "No function" label. With a likely wrong translation, lacking features and capabilities.

And you are just happy that nothing would change at all. Because all you can scream is "YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!".

Well, it looks like we are going to have lots of things that in your opinions were not there.

Personally I am surprised and happy that what ED has already revealed in their plans, I am excited that they have not shown much anything else like the cockpit higher 3D model, but just hinted about some avionics redesign as it opens up only the possibility that what versions they have gone now from the many real cockpits changes.

We can't even assume that "BS3" will be Port #25, as it can very well be something totally different, from the latest standard as it would have come out along KA-52.

Sorry, but searching, I only found a Mock-Up about the Ka-50-2, not a operational prototype.

http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/ka-50-2.htm

That remember the Kh-41 or the Su-32FN.

Well said, Fri.

From what I have summed up searching over the internets for the last 11 years on the Ka-50, and mostly over the last few years, is that there seems to have been MANY prototypes. We are seeing only the few that they wanted to show the world. They seem to have experimented like crazy (which is what the Russian's always seem to do ), and in the end, after it seems they lengthened the wings and added the third rail for igla, they decided they needed a two man cockpit, and made the Ka-52. Probably because they decided it was too hard for one man to fly and target (Which I TOTALLY agree with! ) and that they wanted to make a more spread out cockpit with a better layout. I think in the end, they ditched the Ka-50 for this reason. Made a few of the #25 or so, only because they were obligatorily contracted to.

What I really want to see is what the modern Ka-50 would have been, because I'm sure there are prototypes out there, with the slightly longer wing and third rail, probably everything in the Ka-52, minus maybe the radar and of course, the dual controls.

Because eventually, ED will come out with modern Apache, and AH-1W, which are already very deadly opponents to the Ka-50 even as AI. We need a Modern Ka-50 that can survive the Modern Battlefield. Either that, or a Ka-52.

In the end, the Ka-50 never was anything more than an experiment, that became the Ka-52.

Well said 3WA!

We need a Modern Ka-50 that can survive the Modern Battlefield. Either that, or a Ka-52.

Personally, I'd prefer to fly the aircraft as it was flown in Chechnya, or at the very least a configuration we have photographic and documented evidence of. I wouldn't want to fly a mythical fantasy version, even if it did make me dominate the battlefield. It's not always about winning, sometimes it's just nice to enjoy aircraft as they were, complete with their weaknesses. Fly missions that are realistic and achievable with the aircraft you want to use.

Ka-52 would be great. Mi-24 will be great. :D

Im not a ka50 expert but the pair of ka50's that were tested in the Chechen war probably had less feautures than the ka50 we have now. I hope we will have a ka50 which we dont know about, only ED knows about it and that it had a longer wing with a third pylon. Thats what i WANT and i honestly think that we might get it. Might.

Also mi 28 is one heck of a beast.

I urge caution. They already showed us the model that we're getting.

Your ideas of the development of the KA-52 seemes misguided, in my humble opinion.

According to my sources, Kamov didnt "ditch" the KA-50. There simply was no orders on it.

And they didnt develop the KA-52 because "it was too much for one person to handle the KA-50"

According to the tests performed in Chechnya, the pilots were comfortable with the work load and the tests were very positive.

The thing is, Kamv wanted to develop a "Command and Reconissance Helicopter" and the lack of funds ment that they were not able to develop a completly new helicopter from scratch - but instead decided to modify the KA-50.

The Difference between the KA-50 and KA-52 is far, from as you deescribe (intentionally or not) just a second pilot.

The KA-52 has many, MANY systems that the KA-50 has not. As it was intended as a Recon & Command Helo, it has not only radar for both air and ground targetets, but also advanced systems for command, control and fire control systems.

The Ka-52 helicopter is fitted with a mast-mounted radome housing a Phazotron FH-01 Millimeter Wave Radar (MMW) radar with two antennas for aerial and ground targets.

he helicopter also integrates a FAZOTRON cabin desk radio-locator and navigation and attack system for helicopters (NASH). - Whatever that means.

Other than that, there are som minor other differences (such as the ejection seat upgrade, from K-37-800 to K-37-800M) and from what I can tell - the KA-52 has different engines than KA-50 (From what I can find, it says that the KA-52 was upgraded with 2 × Klimov VK-2500 turboshaft engines - but no mention of what the Engines were before that)

The extra workload of operating radar and FAC duties, ment that there was need for a second pilot - none of that is related to the workload in the actual KA-50 > it was the added systems that required it.

And the KA-50 was not "ditched" It's just that the Navy chose the KA-52 as their new helo, whilst the Army (?) went for the Mi-28

Edit: Further reading about the even more updated KA-52K version, ordered by the Navy. Article was written 2012:

The major difference will be the radar: A modified version of the Mig-35 fighter's Zhuk-A phased array radar is currently being developped to fit into the Ka-52K nose cone. This will be a major step forward compared to the base Ka-52 helicopter as the AESA radar Zhuk-A is among the most advanced radars to date in Russia. The radar is stated to provide a detection range of 130 km for a head on target with up to 30 targets tracked and 6 of those engaged at any one time.

 

Ka-52K will also feature folding rotor blades, folding wings and anti-corrosion treatment to fuselage and systems which is a necessity for any helicopter set to operate from a ship.

 

Another significant improvement for the Ka-52K over the Ka-52 is the reported possibility to launch Kh-31 (AS-17 'Krypton') and Kh-35 (AS-20 'Kayak') anti-ship missiles.

Edit 2:

Interesting reading:

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/ka-52-alligator-attack-helicopters/

I wouldn't want to fly a mythical fantasy version...

To me, it already is a mythical, fantasy version. Because it was never really produced, beyond 2 or 3 to wrap up a contract.

So, I'm fine with the longer Ka-52 wing and 3rd rail. Would also VERY much like FLIR, so the copter can have night attack abilities. I'm getting destroyed by just a few AH-1W's in Battle.miz . Against Apache's, it's a total NIGHTMARE! And they ALWAYS come at you. Against fighters, there is no chance of survival. They're farther away, giving you a chance, but you can't lock them up. So in the end, you're toast.

I'd be happy if they gave us the options for the third rail and FLIR on the "Special Page" or whatever they call it, where they have the option for "Rudder Trim". Then, everyone can fly what model they want.

Cause to me, the only REAL "Ka-5x" is the the Ka-52.

Cause to me, the only REAL "Ka-5x" is the the Ka-52.

From what I can tell - the Russian Airforce operates 16-18 KA-50 helicopters today.

And then there is also this:

A request for proposal (RFP) to buy 22 attack helicopters was issued by the Indian Defence Ministry on 30 May 2008 as part of the $550m contract. The request determnined the attack helicopter should encompass weapons to boost the Indian Air Force’s surveillance and combat capabilities.

 

The air force also required that the helicopter would weigh 2,500kg or more when empty and have two engines. It should encompass a modern anti-armour capability along with a turret gun of 20mm or higher calibre and be able to fire 70mm rockets a range of 1.2km. The helicopter should be capable of working in all weather, day and night, and in desert and mountaineous regions.

 

The second RFP was issued in June 2009, stating that around 384 additional light helicopters were cleared for purchase. The $2bn order was for the Indian Air Force and Army, of which 125 would be for the air force and 259 for the army.

Make of that as you wish.

I wouldn't call a helo being in active duty, and almost 400 ordered a "fantasy"

the KA-52 has different engines than KA-50 (From what I can find, it says that the KA-52 was upgraded with 2 × Klimov VK-2500 turboshaft engines - but no mention of what the Engines were before that)

The engine in use prior to the VK-2500 was the TV3-117VMA, which is what's in the Ka-50. Don't be fooled by the name, however, they are almost identical engines. The VK-2500 just has a few enhancements that allow it to produce more power. The two engines are interchangeable with very little work.

Copy that.

Anyone know what happened to those RFP's from India? Was the order canceled - or if not, when are they expected to be delivered?

To me, it already is a mythical, fantasy version. Because it was never really produced, beyond 2 or 3 to wrap up a contract (...) So, I'm fine with the longer Ka-52 wing and 3rd rail.

Then you don't understand what mythical means.

This is a very rare, but real animal.

If you make a model of this, you're making a model of a real thing - even though there are only a few in the world, and none left in the wild.

This is an imaginary animal.

The Ka-50 with a MLWS is like the former - rare, but real

The Ka-50 with a third rail is like the later - a mythical creation

I think that the whole argument about whether an imaginary third rail to hold the IGLA is acceptable might be secondary to the fact that if you read the Russian Ka-50 thread there's pretty much a consensus (including from E.D.) that the Ka-50 never actually fielded "needles" on any airworthy airframe:

S.E.Bulba:

Q1 / In all sources it is said that the Igla-V system of guided weapons (CWS) was planned to be equipped (according to earlier sources), and it seems they even equipped it (according to later sources) only the Ka-50Sh night-time modification. However, the “budget” daily modification of the Ka-50 (which is actually in our game) didn’t seem to have ever been planned to equip the Igla-V SUV ... at least there is no information about such plans in open sources until the project is closed.

 

Chizh: R1.

This will be our assumption.

______________________________________

Chizh: I suggest not to bother much in finding the reasons for the appearance of Eagles on the Ka-50ED, but simply to take it for granted. In this case, we wanted to.

______________________________________

Игл Eagle

Игла Needle

I strongly suspect that the Igla (Now it's pointed out, 'Eagla' sounds good :-) is being added to the "Ka-50ED" as a concession to future MAC offline players....

Doesn't matter though - as long as they put a setting in the ME to let servers force them off if they want to enforce realistic loadouts. (you could just remove Igla from all airbases, but some aircraft should have access...

Do we know for a fact that theres no ka50 wing with 3 pylons?

Did i miss it or is just an assumption?

If u have to swap vikhrs for iglas' than thats gon suck