[NO BUG]take off auto flaps - f18 - pitch up? - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-13-2019, 04:25 PM   #21
Hog_No32
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If you allow me to express my opinion on this: I‘d rather prefer the ED team to work on systems and features for those that want to fly the Hornet realistically and follow the correct procedures instead of modelling the behavior of the jet when not following the procedures. Unless time and resources permit...

Really no offense here, just my personal opinion
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by cofcorpse View Post
Why are you so sure? The Blue Angels have modified jets, with modified FCS, so you can't compare normal jet with theirs.
The blues have a custom avionics package as far as I know. With various warning deletes (like Auto flap on takeoff) and various other airshow related stuff like distance to show centre point and timing related things but I don’t believe the FCS is changed in any meaningful way, I’m happy to be proven wrong on that however.

I’m pretty sure all the European hornets I’ve seen doing auto flap takeoffs over here do not have modified FCSs as well, as they are not specifically display jets and also get used for normal operations.

There is no way the jet should pitch up uncontrollably from a flaps auto takeoff. There is no reason for it to be designed that way. And there is plenty of evidence of normal, unmodified F-18s doing flaps auto takeoffs without any pitch up issues. It’s a bug.

A bug that doesn’t really effect anybody who wants to fly the jet normally outside an airshow routine, but a bug none the less.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:58 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Deano87 View Post
And there is plenty of evidence of normal, unmodified F-18s doing flaps auto takeoffs without any pitch up issues.
Could you share some of them, please? Not Blue Angels, F/A-18A/B, Canadians and others. Only USMC/NAVY F/A-18C/D, please.

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It’s a bug.
No, it's not, unless proven
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:19 PM   #24
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I don’t have any evidence of F/A-18Cs being flown by the US Navy doing flaps AUTO takeoffs and not having the pitch up problem, If that’s what you’re asking for.

All the jets I’ve seen do it are Blue Angel or Swiss F/A-18Cs, as well as some other ones as well over the years.

But it makes no sense from a safety standpoint to have an aircraft that will uncontrollably pitch up like that if taken off in the incorrect config, specially when you can program the FCS to just revert back to the 1G trim state once the WOW is released.

I’m not saying take my word for it. Talk to your SMEs, hit up Jello from the fighter pilot podcast. He’s bound to have either done AUTO flap takeoffs or know somebody who has.
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:19 PM   #25
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You guys are still tackling auto flaps T/O, PA mode transition to > then T/O pitch up, reset to pitch trim when bolter/T&G with any 2 wheels hitting the deck and... other FCS features that I have no idea about...
I'm re-writing NATOPS here! :


I'm not making any wake turbulence, hehe

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Old 08-13-2019, 05:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog_No32 View Post
If you allow me to express my opinion on this: I‘d rather prefer the ED team to work on systems and features for those that want to fly the Hornet realistically and follow the correct procedures instead of modelling the behavior of the jet when not following the procedures. Unless time and resources permit...

Really no offense here, just my personal opinion
That’s my feeling too.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cofcorpse View Post
Could you share some of them, please? Not Blue Angels, F/A-18A/B, Canadians and others. Only USMC/NAVY F/A-18C/D, please.


No, it's not, unless proven
Read the flight manual. I had posted links to it here but they were deleted due to rules. The manual states the fact that all 3 modes work the same once 250 speed is reached.

Even the f18 modeled by ED works this way for every other condition.
take off with full flaps or half flaps, don't switch to auto, you can fly around all day and they will do what they would on auto, you have a amber light telling you your in full flaps, but still it runs in auto mode till you get below 250 again.

This is what the manual states also.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:54 PM   #28
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Here is a message exchange I had with the Swiss Hornet display pilot.

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Old 08-13-2019, 09:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisy_lightning View Post
In my opinion whilst this may not technically be a bug I find it hard to believe from a purely Human Factors & Flight Safety point of view that the real F18 would ever act like this on a take off with auto set (yes I know it shouldn't happen, but mistakes do happen periodically).
What’s so hard to believe. From a flight safety point of view there are a thousand things that can kill you every time you leave the ground. Failing to perform any of a hundred procedures correctly each flight can lead to death dismemberment and destruction.

In the case of the F-18C it is the tendency to pitch up violently during takeoff if you do not set the flaps properly. So it is practiced and stressed that not setting the flaps correctly will kill you.

This isn’t a case of it shouldn't happen. This is a case of it being drilled into a persons head “If you dont do this correctly you will die.”

It’s not a bug. It’s a simulation of a combat aircraft flown by professionals.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:21 PM   #30
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Sierra, I can’t find anything in the -000 about this violent pitch up. Can you direct me to the appropriate chapter/page where It explains that if you attempt a takeoff in AUTO the aircraft will uncontrollably pitch up and require a cycle of the flaps to reset the FCS. Such a serious handling fault would no doubt be documented in the Natops manual, where all other handling oddities (including unusual configuration operations) are listed.
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Last edited by Deano87; 08-13-2019 at 11:17 PM.
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