So about the M2000 FM and current state... - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-08-2019, 01:00 PM   #1
falcon_120
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Default So about the M2000 FM and current state...

Hello everybody,

Thanks to the last sale I could not hold the trigger any longer and I bought the M2000C. I've been learning it lately and enjoying it a lot. Which basically leads me to the question I want to throw to the DEV team or any other user more up to date than me about the general info of this module or how it has change since it was launched, and that is:
-What is the current state of the FM?
-Is this considered mostly complete and accurate now?
-Is it accurate against known public available data and other RL comparative performance (i.e. In which type of combat it should be winning, in which regimes, versus which fighters etc...)

Why do I ask this, and I don't want to imply that Razbam have made a poor job or that the fighter is OP or anything, but I'm curious based on my perception, ONLY MY PERCEPTION i've noticed the following:

-This fighter turns incredibly well, even at high altitude, and it does not seem to loose too much speed, it feels a bit like its TWR is very good, right now I would say it tuns better than any other plane in DCS. In which regime should it turn better exactly? THIS MIGHT BE JUST A PERCEPTION OF ME; NO TEST HAS BEEN PERFORMED.
-His performance at high altitude is amazing, particularly is incredible how easy i can reach 50.000 and start gaining amazing speed, I don't know if its me but it seems like a better performer at high altitude over a F15c. I always though the eagle TWR was superior and his high altitude performance and speed would be better thanks to this.

And as a last comment, if razbam finally make the mirage 2000-5, and the FM is ok, that bird is going to be amazing with Fox 3s with that performacne at altitude and those speeds .
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:52 PM   #2
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STR is a bit too much below 200kt (it should bleed more energy).

But yes, the Mirage 2000 fly very well at high altitude.

Real life data is FL360 loaded with bombs and wing tanks.
Empty wing tanks and 2000kg of remaining fuel FL500 (former Mirage IV/2000N/ 2000D WSO data) @ M0.95
So with AA load, you would have burned the fuselage bag fuel (1000kg) by reaching around FL360, and you would easily reach FL400.

M53 was originally designed for high altitude/ high speed twin engines interceptor.
Delta wing is good at transonic speed and give low wing loading, good for high altitude flights.

But I would advise you to keep FBW on CHARGES mode up high, or you could easily bleed all your energy.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:52 AM   #3
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Thanks for the answer
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
STR is a vital too much below 200kt (it should bleed more energy).

.
I'm wondering if Razbam will adjust the FM in that area
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:28 AM   #5
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And just to add to the previous comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post

Even if the Mirage is known to handle very well at low speed, it isn't something to do against the Hornet which is a monster in low speed arena.
Currently in DCS Mirage is the king in slow speed scissor / 1c fight in DCS
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:39 PM   #6
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Please remember, that AdA gave a very positive opinion on the FM and mostly asked for updates in how systems work...
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_dragon View Post
Please remember, that AdA gave a very positive opinion on the FM and mostly asked for updates in how systems work...
Which means absolutely nothing if you really think about it. They want it primarily as a systems model/teaching tool. So of course thats the stuff they want fixed. They also have real planes, and presumably better but more expensive simulators. I doubt very much that they really care how good or bad the FM is because its largely irrelevant to them "its good enough" but they really want to teach folks which buttons to press in which order to task X.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Which means absolutely nothing if you really think about it. They want it primarily as a systems model/teaching tool. So of course thats the stuff they want fixed. They also have real planes, and presumably better but more expensive simulators. I doubt very much that they really care how good or bad the FM is because its largely irrelevant to them "its good enough" but they really want to teach folks which buttons to press in which order to task X.
No, it isn’t a part task trainer. The real simulator is better for that too.
French Air Force already explained officially that the intended purpose is cheap large scale multiplayer.
They even show cased it during latest Paris Air Show (Le Bourget).

But yes, they are primarily interested in weapon system. I wouldn’t complain about that, this is the most difficult to find.
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Last edited by jojo; 11-13-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
No, it isn’t a part task trainer. The real simulator is better for that too.
French Air Force already explained officially that the intended purpose is cheap large scale multiplayer.
They even show cased it during latest Paris Air Show (Le Bourget).

But yes, they are primarily interested in weapon system. I wouldn’t complain about that, this is the most difficult to find.
Fair enough, point being that they don't care if its not 100%, 80-90% or even 50% is probably just fine for what they want to do with it.

I think at some point though ED is going to have to start really double checking everyone's FM versus each other more rigorously, and this will be a major headache for them as the number of modules grows. And I'm not calling out the mirage here, but the whole F14 vs F16 vs peoples expectations fiasco that recently occured.
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Last edited by Harlikwin; 11-13-2019 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:02 PM   #10
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Or the nerds around here can quit nitpicking and accept that plus or minus a few percent is close enough. As much as people like to wheeze ''muh immersion digital combat SIMULATOR'' through a cloud of Cheetos dust at the end of the day it's a video game. If folks want it more real, the enlistment office is usually easy to find =)
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