Cold War 1947 - 1991 *** Limited Edition ***

Just for you, mate.

Removed.

You're too kind, thank you :blush:

Mission Update:

- The F-16C's were moved along with their weapons from Haifa airbase to Ramat David.

- 2 x SAM SA-10 batteries added (1 at Damascus airbase and 1 at King Hussein Air College)

- Frequency added in the briefing -> Theodore Roosevelt: 127.5 MHz, channel 71, channel mode X

- Briefing image updated:

You're too kind, thank you :blush:

He's not wrong though. While I can understand that this sucks for you I would also find it odd to remove an entire feature from the mission for everyone because of technical issues of a single user. I really do like to see some weather features being used in MP missions, which is something I don't see very often unfortunately. :(

He's not wrong though. While I can understand that this sucks for you I would also find it odd to remove an entire feature from the mission for everyone because of technical issues of a single user. I really do like to see some weather features being used in MP missions, which is something I don't see very often unfortunately. :(

In the 104th missions I've been adding varying degrees of dynamic weather so I'm not against that, it's just that the fog seems unnecessary (and looks ugly) given that there is overwhelming haze even with the default weather.

@Alpenwolf you don't have to change this just for me, if it's upsetting others just leave it enabled.

Round 2:

Thursday, the 24th of September, 1900 zulu

I've just received a pm from ViFF who promised to bring 30+ players of the Israeli DCS community to the mission but only if it's on Thursday. So Thursday it is! And with that, let's just reserve the Blue team for the ViFF pilots only. At least this time around. So now I can only hope more Red pilots would show up! I can only say that it is really fun though very tough flying the Fishbed or the Tiger against them advanced fighters. I do that myself quite often on the 104th server and get some kills from time to time. It is doable. One simply has to come up with different tactics and be very patient. I really hope Red would show up this time.

Alpen, sorry if this is a stupid question but I generally watch these contests mainly through Rossmum's and or Mustangs twitch page. Is there a channel to watch these if these guys are not participating?

Is SRS absolutely required? I've not played Multiplayer since in-game comms were enabled, but wouldnt using in-game comms for GCI be much easier and simpler to use for everyone involved?

Alpen, sorry if this is a stupid question but I generally watch these contests mainly through Rossmum's and or Mustangs twitch page. Is there a channel to watch these if these guys are not participating?

I'll be taking part and streaming from my end don't worry :)

Alpen, sorry if this is a stupid question but I generally watch these contests mainly through Rossmum's and or Mustangs twitch page. Is there a channel to watch these if these guys are not participating?

Hi, the IAF will not be able to participate this Thursday (tomorrow) due to a scheduling conflict, but as Alpenwolf wrote the mission will be hosted, so please do not reserve any slots on the blue side for IAF.

Cheers!

He's not wrong though. While I can understand that this sucks for you I would also find it odd to remove an entire feature from the mission for everyone because of technical issues of a single user. I really do like to see some weather features being used in MP missions, which is something I don't see very often unfortunately. :(

I'll never be able to please everyone, I know that, therefore, I'm not trying to. Only he asked for it due to issues on his side. So I took it out for him. But you're right. Round 3 will have the fog back. Might add some rain too.

Alpen, sorry if this is a stupid question but I generally watch these contests mainly through Rossmum's and or Mustangs twitch page. Is there a channel to watch these if these guys are not participating?

Rossmum flies on the Cold War server quite often so expect him to be there. If not, Mustang just confirmed he will be.

Is SRS absolutely required? I've not played Multiplayer since in-game comms were enabled, but wouldnt using in-game comms for GCI be much easier and simpler to use for everyone involved?

I've always used Teamspeak for briefing and debriefing (sometimes even for talks off topic or just chitchat) while SRS for in-game comms. If something works for you why change it, right? Also, SRS enables you to use the onboard radio systems which is an absolute blast!

Hi, the IAF will not be able to participate this Thursday (tomorrow) due to a scheduling conflict, but as Alpenwolf wrote the mission will be hosted, so please do not reserve any slots on the blue side for IAF.

 

Cheers!

Things happen, buddy, no worries. Hope to see you guys next time. Just give me a date for next week if possible and if you guys are still interested.

Note @ all:

If any squadron or DCS community can cover the slots of a whole coalition (Red or Blue), I'd happily reserve the slots for them. Even better if another squadron asks for the slots of the other coalition then it's a squadron vs squadron thing. And to make it fair if necessary or desired, in one round your squadron plays Red and in the next Blue to offer the same circumstances for both. It can also be 2 squadrons vs 2 other. Or simply x number of squadrons vs y number of that if they agree between themselves before asking for the slots.

Now you know what I'm after with this mission. That's why I said it's exceptional and not part of the daily server's missions. And no doubt I'll change things regarding weapons or aircraft or anything else to spice it up a bit from time to time.

I am still for keeping it realistic and removing stuff like AMRAAMs. Modern jets with more era orientated weapons should be interesting on its own. I know non of the 4th gen fighters were present pack when the October War happened, but they are close enough to work as substitutes with as close as possible era specific weapons, meaning the 70s. AIM-7F, AIM-9P, R-60, AIM-54A Mk47 and maybe R-27s.

Curious how it will work out tomorrow, let's see.

I am still for keeping it realistic and removing stuff like AMRAAMs. Modern jets with more era orientated weapons should be interesting on its own. I know non of the 4th gen fighters were present pack when the October War happened, but they are close enough to work as substitutes with as close as possible era specific weapons, meaning the 70s. AIM-7F, AIM-9P, R-60, AIM-54A Mk47 and maybe R-27s.

 

Curious how it will work out tomorrow, let's see.

:thumbup:

I have a flat inspection tomorrow morning, so won't be around for this one. I'll have to see how it plays out by checking out Mustang's VOD afterwards, hopefully I can catch the mission on a future playthrough.

Dealing with 4th gens is hard, and dealing with a large number of 4th gens with active missiles is even harder, but there are a number of things you can exploit against less experienced players to give them a rough time. It's been quite a long time since I last claimed a Hornet in my 21 but it can be done - ideally with a couple of good GCIs coordinating a few players each so they can focus their attention while someone else handles CA stuff. Syria is arguably the best map for this kind of thing thanks to its ridges and valleys, so red has that going for them.

I really like the concept of limited airframes and I hope to see it migrate back to the regular missions as well - I just wish there was a way to preserve a belly-landed (but not destroyed) aircraft for helicopters to come sling it home, either to go back into the pool after a repair timer or count as half an airframe so two retrieved birds give you one available. It would definitely spice up the helicopter guys' lives and make both teamwork, and trying to bring a plane down at least in one piece, a lot more valuable.

If something works for you why change it, right? Also, SRS enables you to use the onboard radio systems which is an absolute blast!

You stated yourself that you wanted a higher server population and more people cooperating through comms, for GCI intercepts or whatever. Well believe it or not a lot of people are intimidated by SRS, so instead of participating they will either A) not join the server, or B) join the server as lone wolfs and not really contribute much to the mission or even have as much fun as they could have.

You stated yourself that you wanted a higher server population and more people cooperating through comms, for GCI intercepts or whatever. Well believe it or not a lot of people are intimidated by SRS, so instead of participating they will either A) not join the server, or B) join the server as lone wolfs and not really contribute much to the mission or even have as much fun as they could have.

The ingame voice comms are still pretty bad unfortunately, meaning they're not integrated into the actual aircraft radios. That's why they're not really a viable alternative for SRS so far.

The ingame voice comms are still pretty unfortunately, meaning they're not integrated into the actual aircraft radios. That's why they're not really a viable alternative for SRS so far.

+1

Should voice comms ever become as good as SRS (in terms of using the onboard radio systems) or better then why not.

Do they still lag the server when enabled? I remember that being a major problem when they came out :noexpression:

Red Won!

Summary:

This time around all ground units were available for both sides. No bugs at all.

That being said, it seemed like the KUB's and the Tors were too much to handle. One Tor survived 4 HARM missiles. Only the fourth missile hit him and still he was operational! The life bar was showing 5-10% left. I never thought one HARM missile isn't enough to destroy the Tor even if it's a direct hit. Or was that just some weird coincidence?

Again, some MiG-21 and F-5 pilots were able to score multiple kills.

The ground warfare was very intense and interesting. Many Red units survived and made it to bulls.

Teamkills on both sides, mainly MiG-29's and F-14's doing that.

One Ka-50 destroyed several friendly T-55's.

Israeli Patriots shot down some Red planes.

I'll run some tests tomorrow and will reduce the number of the KUB sites and Tors.

Here's the butcher's bill:

22 x MiG-21's destroyed (96 were available)

12 x F-5's destroyed (60 were available)

22 x MiG-29's destroyed (24 were available)

6 x F-14's destroyed (24 were available)

18 x F-15's destroyed (36 were available)

18 x F-16's destroyed (24 were available)

12 x F-18's destroyed (24 were available)

And again, the AMRAAM's didn't stop Red from scoring multiple air-to-air kills. I'm aware of the AA units for Red; Many KUB sites and Tors, which scored many kills. And I'm aware of the fact that not every one on Blue was a pro F-15/16/18 pilot and I saw that while doing GCI. And the same applies to Red. That's why it would be more accurate to evaluate the whole thing if we had one whole squadron on each side. Unfortunately, it ain't that easy to do. I'll try and organise something with the Israeli DCS community again and hopefully we can find a suitable date for them so that Blue pilots can actually coordinate and follow one leader of their own. It would be then more interesting to see how Red would react to that. And I must say and while doing GCI on two different frequencies those who were on comms with me executed their objectives very well and got their kills, despite the fact most of them were not part of any squadron.

Round 3:

- The number of KUB sites and Tors will be reduced.

- The number of MiG-21's will be reduced. 96 seems a bit too much.

- Hopefully, some of your ideas.

Red Won!

 

I'm not surprised! Blue were severely undermanned, no GCI most of the time and could barely get out of the circuit at Ramat before getting engaged buy a ridiculous number of SAMs.

Definitely felt like a Red Feel Good mission where blue was being nibbled to death by ducks!

Added to that the performance hit of the Syria map made it a serious slide show at times.

Certainly not as enjoyable as your usual F5 vs Mig21 missions.

I'm not surprised! Blue were severely undermanned, no GCI most of the time and could barely get out of the circuit at Ramat before getting engaged buy a ridiculous number of SAMs.

 

Definitely felt like a Red Feel Good mission where blue was being nibbled to death by ducks!

 

Added to that the performance hit of the Syria map made it a serious slide show at times.

 

Certainly not as enjoyable as your usual F5 vs Mig21 missions.

You missed round 1, yeah? Much less KUB sites and Tors. Israeli fighters were able to chase F-14's and MiG-29's away and even all the way back to Damascus. They had more space. And I addressed the issue above. And it will go back to that.

I myself wouldn't compare this mission to the rest of the Cold War missions. It's a complete different thing. Hence the separate thread.

It has been 2 interesting rounds of the Tiberias mission, and allot learned.

I agree with you Alpenwolf, moving the medium range air defenses back from the front line is a good move, and maybe keeping it to short range sam’s and AAA’s only. There is nothing more annoying than getting shot down from the ground during a dogfight.

Like some of us have mentioned before, is that the Aim120B/C Amraam versions does not belong in this 1947-1991 era.

Deliveries of the Aim120B began in 1994, and the Aim120C was introduced in 1996, not sure if DCS is using C7 variant that came in 1998.

The R27’s were all produced pre 1990 with a first operational date of 1983.

The Aim7M has an interesting fact which is that the reliability of the Sparrow had improved so much from the dismal days of Vietnam that it accounted for the largest number of aerial targets destroyed in Desert Storm (Aug 2, 1990 – Feb 28, 1991).

An ideal balance, and historically correct load out, would be Aim7M & Aim7MH for the Blue, and R27R & T’s for the Red.

You missed round 1, yeah? Much less KUB sites and Tors. Israeli fighters were able to chase F-14's and MiG-29's away and even all the way back to Damascus. They had more space. And I addressed the issue above. And it will go back to that.

I myself wouldn't compare this mission to the rest of the Cold War missions. It's a complete different thing. Hence the separate thread.

Alpenwolf, thank you very much for you efforts making these events possible and finding ways to set up the historical situation. I think this is a hell of a job.

Had a lot of fun yesterday evening, and learned my lessons.

I had only one single slide show when chasing a group of bogeys while flying 10m above ground :D, but luckily I was able to get out of that sh.. somehow after 1 or 2 seconds.

Would love to fly that mission again.

Alpenwolf, carry on, your efforts are worth it! :joystick:

...

An ideal balance, and historically correct load out, would be Aim7M & Aim7MH for the Blue, and R27R & T’s for the Red.

I'm aware of that. In some of the posts above and in response to the critics regarding the AMRAAM's I stated that I had to break a rule or two to enable some features. One of the features was the AMRAAM's. Just to see how it plays out. And to the surprise of many Red pilots who said it was unfair or impossible to win, it wasn't. It's a rare experience in the multiplayer world of DCS. And rare means incentive to me.

Restricting the AA weapons was an option from the beginning. But then it wont be 96 MiG-21's and 60 F-5's. I'll have to reduce the number of those and maybe increase the numbers a bit for Blue.

You guys know how it is with the Cold War missions. We let it roll and from the feedback I gather I learn and adapt. Thanks for your patience and sticking with the mission despite not agreeing on the AMRAAM's.

Round 3 will have no AMRAAM's, no ER's and no ET's. The Phoenix however becomes an issue now. It is a 70's missile. So maybe instead of 60 missiles at mission's start I make it only 24? Which would mean 6 sorties? Or is that too much to handle? I mean, in both rounds Blue planes managed to dodge 80-90% of those missiles. Or should I just remove them completely? Help me with that one, please.

Do we already have a date for round 3? Just asking ... I have to plan accordingly ... :D

Do we already have a date for round 3? Just asking ... I have to plan accordingly ... :D

+1 :thumbup:

Round 2 was pretty frustrating for me personally, but that has nothing to do with the mission or the server...

I summoned my buddy to serve as a Tomcat pilot with me in the backseat and for that he took work off for friday to be able to stay longer for the mission. So everything was in palce for a great DCS experience, but then right at the start my trusty old TrackIR gave up on me after working flawlessly for about 7 years. As a result I had to use the numpad to look around and with that I couldn't really perform well as a RIO.

After two frustrating flights like that I stopped flying and instead provided some close GCI guidance for my buddy as well as for another wingman who showed up as well. As I could focus on them I was able to guide them very precisely through valleys to make them sneak up on enemy aircraft a couple of times. That lowered my frustration a bit, but still wasn't how I planned to spend the mission. I also jumped in a tank inbetween and managed to take out a Merkava at least :)

Anyways, the mission itself is still great and would love to play it again once I figured out what's wrong with my TIR. It was also great to see how the blue 4gen aircraft performed rather poorly without AWACS compared to other servers like Blue Flag, where they often have incredible SA. That was interesting to see :thumbup: