Help with takeoff please

I've spent about 30 hours ( seriously) so far practicing takeoff. I can get her up but it's such a struggle. I spent the afternoon watching just about every Youtube video on the subject and I think I might have a problem somewhere. I'm setting my trims as advised and using the 8 lb boost.

What happens to me is as soon as my nose begins to level off my left wing quite violently dips down, now I've learned to correct for that but this doesn't seem to happen on most of the Youtube videos I've watched? On chucks video, he takes off using no stick at all? I've checked I have no spikes in my curves settings and I'm using about 25 curves on the Warthog. Anyway, thanks for any help, now to wreck some more wings.

Sounds like you are pulling too much too early.

Once the tail comes up, let her stay a bit on the ground and then slowly and smoothly pull a bit.

Well, I just don't know, another 4 hours tonight and no nearer, sometimes even with full opposite rudder and stick full to the right, as soon as I apply the throttle it just turns sharply to the left? I really am baffled by this as I can take off in the Spitfire in IL-2 BOS in full sim mode relatively easily after just a few hours practice?

pay attention to the slip characteristics. oftentimes there is a rapid slip reversal during rotation and if you don't respond to it accordingly it will rapidly develop into a tip stall. it can be counterintuitive because you will think you need to kick the rudder further to the right to counter the roll, when in fact you need to reverse for left rudder so that you nose into the slip.

watch the slip ball while you learn to get an idea for what the airplane wants to do.

Well, I just don't know, another 4 hours tonight and no nearer, sometimes even with full opposite rudder and stick full to the right, as soon as I apply the throttle it just turns sharply to the left? I really am baffled by this as I can take off in the Spitfire in IL-2 BOS in full sim mode relatively easily after just a few hours practice?

When slow, taking off or landing use the differential brakes, the brakes are different on the Spitfire as it uses a handle on the stick IRL, more handle + more right rudder = more pressure to the right wheel brake.

You shouldn't need a lot of brake or for very long, once there is enough air across the tail.

Let her come off the runway when she wants to fly and keep her fairly level to gain speed. Please don't compare other sims to the DCS flight models these other sims are good, don't get me wrong, just not quite at the same level.

Downloads Chuck's PDF Guide

I also recommend the 3 part Essay's at the very top of the Spitfire forum written by a taildragger instructor, Part 1 can be found here.

Essay, PART 2: Getting the tail up

ESSAY, PART 3: Landing and stopping

.

Thanks David, I appreciate your input but I have read those essays and Chuck's guide. I also appreciate that the DCS sim is very accurate, one of the reasons I love it so much. I have got to grips with the braking system and can taxi relatively well. The reason I feel there is something wrong with my input setup somewhere is watching this video

from DCS.

I am following that procedure exactly but where he says "as soon as you have enough speed allow the stick to go to neutral' (at 4:10) my Spitfire left wing dips sharply and drags the runway. If I'm quick I can correct with a hard stick to the right but it is so much more tricky than on that video or on Chuck's video where neither seem to have this sharp left wing dip?

On Chuck's video, he uses no stick input at all? Totally impossible for me. I'm beginning to think I have a 'Friday afternoon' Spitfire, Oh, wait a minute I wrecked that one! And about 200 others.

Two things occurred to me, I have my rudder pedals inverted, is that correct? Secondly, I have my throttle handle split on the Warthog, the left for RPM and the right for boost, what I find is when I get to +8 boost my RPM is still only about 2200 with an equal amount of movement? On both videos, the RPM seems to be up at 3000 at +8 boost so I have to faff about moving the left throttle more than the right. I can't help thinking that many of the youtube videos have 'rudder assistance' turned on, I can emulate those takeoffs with ease when I turn that on.

Pedals should be set so that when you press the right one, the plane yaws right, but you certainly know that :). I don't remember it that required axis inversion or not, but you notice it right away.

When you activate controls indicator screen (Ctrl Enter), does it show all your inputs correctly? I'm beginning to think you might be suffering from some duplicate assignments in controls menu - there are bunch of them when installing a new module and it's crucial to erase unwanted ones first.

By the way, I can't quite agree with David's suggestion above - you shouldn't need to use differential brakes during takeoff at all (one less thing to worry about!), and only some during final phase of landing roll-out.

I can't help thinking that many of the youtube videos have 'rudder assistance' turned on, I can emulate those takeoffs with ease when I turn that on.

That's very unlikely. People very rarely use rudder assistance since it instigates funky behaviours on takeoff.

I was having the same issue with takeoffs. I've "flown" a lot of sims in realistic mode and never had the issues I was having with this Spit ... until I stumbled upon one thing that made all the difference.

Lined up on the runway, all trimmed out and joystick curves set per the guides you've referenced. First, smooth throttle up to the 8 or so pounds, but more important keep the stick pulled straight back.

This gets me rolling mostly straight down the runway with some minor pedal work, then I gently release pressure on the stick to get the nose level and tail up. Build speed and pull back to lift off.

There is even mention in the manual about taxiing with the stick pulled back.

Indeed, pulling the stick back helps somewhat with tailweheel centering effect, which, although not very strong, is there for sure and becomes useful during takeoff and landing.

That being said, there might be something more wonky going on with StratMan's controller setup, and aforementioned engine parameters only confirm that. I know for sure that If 0 (zero) PSI of boost during engine runup and checks yields 2400 RPM, there's no way in hell he should be getting only 2200 at 8 PSI.

Well another few hours trying everything suggested, no change. I'm absolutely convinced there is something awry with my input setup. My left wing is even dipping when I have the stick hard to the right and way before I reach even +4 boost let alone +8. Does anyone know what files I need to clean out so as to make a fresh start? is it just the .lua files?

*** A breakthrough***

I deleted all my .lua files for the Spit, started from scratch with just the axis controls. An instant success, the most obvious difference is now at +8 psi my RPM is up to 3000 as opposed to me only getting up to 2000 with the throttle fully open. I have no idea what the hell had caused that to happen but I've just got up nice and straight 3 times on the trot, yippee! I guess the way to look at this is that I sure have learned to use my controls to the optimum. Thanks to everyone for all of your suggestions and help.

Hurray!

It did indeed seem like a control input issue.

Further

OK, so I've solved the issue but thought I'd just report what I've found to see if anyone can replicate it. I deleted all my .lua files and then joined my two Warthog throttles together and got a good 3000rpm at +8 boost, as it should be.

Now the crazy thing is if I then separate the throttle and configure the left lever to be RPM even when fully open I still only get 2000 RPM? If I rejoin them I can still only get 2000 RPM at +8 boost again. The only way to get back to normal is to completely delete the .lua and reconfigure the axis settings, weird!

Well, I use them the other way around (left for boost, right for RPM, as on the real thing :D), but it shouldn't make any difference whatsoever. There's still something weird going on. I've got a new suspicion though. Based on the symptoms - 2 more questions:

a) do you use game flight mode or full simulation one?

b) if game mode - did you assign controls in "game" controls tab? If simulation mode - did you assign controls in "simulation" controls tab? Are you not mixing up both by accident?

Hi art,

A, Simulation mode.

B, I'm going into option-controls and setting to 'Spitfire LF Kk1X Sim' and then setting up my hotas.

I've tried reversing, throttle on the left and RPS on the right, makes no difference.

I'm out of ideas then. Which version are we talking about anyway? I haven't flown Spit in 1.5.7 stable or Beta lately... Though if either of them was glitched, others would report something already. Will fire up 1.5.7 Stable and take her for a spin.

Any mods in your DCS install? Might be worth trying disabling them, running a cleanup and repair scripts, or, as a last resort, reinstalling the Spit altogether.

It's the same in both 1.5.7 and and 2.1.1.

I can sort it by deleting all my config.lua files and redoing them. As long as I then leave them alone I'm good. So are you saying you split your throttle and it works fine? I'm sure it should work that way.

It should and it does, both for Spit and Mustang :). There's either something interfering with your controllers (you don't use TARGET software do you?), or something still messed up in your assignments, though.

Do at least the prop and boost levers in the 3D cockpit always move according to your Warthog inputs as they should when the latter is split? I've just realized 2000RPM @ 8 lbs sounds like high boost but minimum prop setting. Maybe you didn't set one or the other axis as "slider", or didn't reverse/left unreversed accordingly?

We'll continue tomorrow, as it's bedtime where I live.

If you can get on TS I’ll help ya man!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank's nuts and Art but I think I've managed to sort it out. Basically, I deleted every joystick config file I could find in both 1.5.7 and 2.1.1. One thing I did find was a stray .lua file for the previous Saitek x52 stick I had, not sure if that had anything to do with it but hey! I'm now able to split my throttle and get the correct RPM and boost. Thanks for all your help everyone.

From my experience:

I was surprised to find the sim had 'take-off assistance' on by default. I found my first few flights really easy.

After switching it off, I constantly crashed. The next day I did two things to resolve this: 1) I increased the tension on my pedals to max (I usually fly helos so I had them on the softest setting). 2) I added a small deadzone and created curves within DCS. The small deadzone was due to my pedals not centering accurately by themselves, and the curves mean I have a lot finer control over my rudder for the earlier states.

I am still not great at taking off, but I get off the ground most of the time now.

One other thing I do, if I find myself rolling off to the right (which happens quite often) I add a lot more throttle and this tends to counter it out quite well.

Also, remembering to hold the stick back to lock the tail wheel until the plane starts to nose down a little works well for me.

Also, remembering to hold the stick back to lock the tail wheel until the plane starts to nose down a little works well for me.

This feature is for Fw 190D-9 not for Spitfire.

Spitfire tail wheel is all time free to move, you can not lock it.

Just increase power slowly and you do not need full power for take off. 12lbs manifold presure is enough.

with no assistance and mid fuel load

1) spit well aligned on runway, tail wheel aligned

2) pitch trim on neutral ( midle needle )

3) begin with stick forward and stick on right ( to conteract torque )

4) slowly give her some throttle to give some rudder authority from proppeller

5) the more speed you grab only think " I wanna her on 2 points, well aligned" ( using rudder for the rudder : use small but quick input to correct nose deviation, come back to center each time quickly.)

6) the more speed you get, put back your stick on midle ( from right to midle but keep it forward to force her on 2 point)

7) once on 2 point attitude and well aligned, you can progressively gentle continius throotle up more power until take off speed.

for the rudder : use small but quick input to correct nose deviation, come back to center each time quickly.

Well, I just don't know, another 4 hours tonight and no nearer, sometimes even with full opposite rudder and stick full to the right, as soon as I apply the throttle it just turns sharply to the left? I really am baffled by this as I can take off in the Spitfire in IL-2 BOS in full sim mode relatively easily after just a few hours practice?

Do not compare arcade games with DCS..

" Originally Posted by stratman59 View Post

Well, I just don't know, another 4 hours tonight and no nearer, sometimes even with full opposite rudder and stick full to the right, as soon as I apply the throttle it just turns sharply to the left? I really am baffled by this as I can take off in the Spitfire in IL-2 BOS in full sim mode relatively easily after just a few hours practice?"

it seems you fall asleep on your left foot in a 3 point stall attitude then ;-). move rudder accurate and concentrate on all nose deviation.

DCS : 3 days to do a clean spit take off. A week to do a clean spit landing.